fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4082 ]

[ SECRET POST #4082 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4082 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Quellcrist Falconer in Altered Carbon]

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03.

[Grace and Frankie]

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04.

[Fanart of Ashara Dayne from ASOIAF]

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05.

[Hack/Slash]

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06.

[Kevin Smith]

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07.

[Final Fantasy XIII]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 09 secrets from Secret Submission Post #584.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Asking as a woman who apparently has a lot of "male" fantasies.

What does this mean?

I have some of those fantasies as a woman too, but when straight men have them it's not from a sense of control or reclaiming over male gaze dynamics and power imbalances.

No shit. It is because they find it hot. You only have fantasies to reclaim shit from the male gaze?

FIRST OF ALL, do you have access to the qualitative experience of sexually fantasizing about things as a straight man

if not, where are you getting your information here

I too like to talk about other peoples lived experience like I know it better than they do. I also like to talk about how an entire gender is the same, and that you can extrapolate the motives of an individual by what I perceive attitudes of the the collective to be.

It's a fun pastime.

Friendly warning to from one hobbyist to another, you might want to watch out for the feminists, they been cracking down on that shit whenever I do it.

Weeeellll. In a strictly statistical, non-normative, generalized sense, there are probably some fantasies that are more common among men than they are among women, and vice versa. As a result of social construction and all that kind of thing.

Huh. Wonder why social construction didn't work on me?

The thing about statistical generalizations is that they're generalizations about the behaviors and attitudes of large groups of people, not things that are true of every individual person.

So, that's why I said that it was a statistical generalization, and not a normative statement about all people, in my post that you're replying to.

I get that, but you also offered an explanation for the statistical generalization. "As a result of social construction and all that kind of thing." Which is what I was responding to.

If you're actually asking why societal pressures affect different people differently... just random chance, I figure.

Because societal pressures don't affect everyone the same way. There are always outliers.

People in general like thinking that their group is better, different, or more refined than others and attributing those differences to inherent traits instead of reporting bias or sociocultural factors?

This goes for both groups. Men who think women all fantasize about being dominated and women who think men all fantasize about domination are doing the same thing.

Now if we're talking about the portrayal of male fantasy in English media, that's a different issue, more to do with who has held control over the media historically (cishet white men, mostly) and what's been put on screen and portrayed as "normal" for men to desire because of that. It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario at this point; how many men would be into the same fantasies if those weren't the only acceptable ones media pushed on them since birth?

I have yet to see a straight guy admit to his group of guy friends that he likes being pegged by his hot aggressive girlfriend, even if he does, whereas expressions of enjoying being the dominant partner in a hetero relationship are generally socially acceptable and men are expected to express congratulation if a someone's gf loves being spanked or whatever it is. A girlfriend telling someone else that her boyfriend enjoys being spanked could do damage to his reputation because of social expectations.

Does that mean less men have being spanked as a kink? Or that they're less likely to be open to the idea at all? Does that mean more women have being spanked as a kink? Or that they're more likely to be open to the idea? Certainly it's more socially acceptable for men to express wanting to spank someone else, and women to express wanting to be spanked. Does that make being spanked a female kink, and spanking others a male kink? Lots of people would say so, but are they right?

It's a complicated thing.

People in general like thinking that their group is better, different, or more refined than others

Thank you for answering my question.

I will be honest, it is the answer I felt you were fishing for, so I gave it to you up front.

I feel the rest of the comment is worth a thought, however.

The rest of the comment would have held more weight with me if you had discussed how societal pressures affect both "male" and "female" fantasies. As is, it just reads like the same old patriarchy/toxic masculinity dogma that explains nothing and endlessly contradicts itself.

Re: Why do people gender fantasies?

(Anonymous) - 2018-03-09 03:23 (UTC) - Expand

"thank you for giving me the specific answer I was looking for"

Agreed, that's what I'm thinking too. The rest of the comment read like a TLDR of "But it's different when we do it"

No, because I can write up an equally wordy version of why it's ok to shit on women who read chick lit, and how it's totally justified because they are bad and not as good as people like me and people I like. Hell, I probably don't even need to write it. I can probably find the an exact version of this on some blog talking about why "50 shades of grey is bad" and why women who like it are stupid, and it's totally not misogyny to say this because look at all my studies!

I know I've seen it talking about why the ghostbusters re-boot was garbage.

Everyone has justifications for why their behaviour is different. Its the fist thing people do after they identify a behaviour they have that they would attack in others, they justify why they are ok to do it. In the end, it boils down to the same thing:

People in general like thinking that their group is better, different, or more refined than others

Edited 2018-03-09 07:15 (UTC)

Maybe it's not quite as out there as admitting to liking being pegged, but a lot of guys seem perfectly willing to admit to an interest in snu-snu.

Damn right!

I played Darksiders 2 for the first time a few weeks back, and I almost couldn't leave the first zone because of this sexy snu-snu master:

She will never protect me with her rib crushing arms. Why do I even live?

To attack the people who have them. Simple. You want to imply there's something wrong with a bit of media, imply it is geared towards one gender or another. "Male Fantasies" and "Chick" lit.

I know I have a bais, so I'm trying to be more broad in my approach to this, but I do think it's fair to say it happens more with "Male" fantasies. I mean, if something is called a "Female" movie it's entirely possible it is being deemed a positive / empowering thing, where as usually if a movie is called "Male" (centred, power fantasies, appeals to the male personality, that sort of thing) I think it will almost always be framed as a negative, and therefore a way to dismiss any males who like it.

In fandom which skews liberal and female? Maybe. Possibly true for some aspects of genre fiction.

But, with a handful of exceptions, AAA games with female protagonists or considered to be of interest to female gamers (more than half of gamers) get a much smaller promotional budget. Key publishers and critics in the litfic world routinely have a bias against "chic lit." And Hollywood still has a pretty strong bias in terms of production.

Oh, no, I get that there are many many placed where something being declared "Female" denotes a lesser version. "It's a game with a female character - It's just for Girl gamers, we don't need to care about it" is totally an attitude I've seen. Point I'm making is that if a game or movie or what-have-you is openly declared female, it could mean it's a bad thing, or it could be a statement of empowerment, if a thing is openly declared "Male" that universally denotes a bad thing.

Part of that is because a lot of work focusing on men doesn't really get described as such outside of criticism. Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Miller, and James are great American novelists rather than great male American novelists. Fiction produced by men defaults to literary fiction. Fiction produced by women defaults to chic lit or feminist literature unless it's exceptionally well received by critics. That's true for Hollywood cinema as well. Westerns are just westerns and superhero films are just superhero films, even if both genres are more than 90% a sausage fest in casting and production.

As a result. "men's entertainment," in American mass media has long been a euphemism for porn, sex work, and related art since one way that Hefner danced around censorship was by publishing Pulitzer caliber work.

Patriarchy and capitalism.

At least in American culture, there's a bunch of products (including media) that are designed and marketed for a group of consumers who are primarily male, and a bunch of products that are designed and marketed for a group of consumers who are primarily female. Some of that derives from 20th century gendered division of labor. For example, military fantasies are often considered male because women have only recently been given equal opportunities for military service in the U.S..

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