[ SECRET POST #4098 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4098 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 51 secrets from Secret Submission Post #587.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Did you watch the movie?

The people apprehending them were ordered to kill Bucky on sight. Steve WAS going to surrender him until he heard they were shooting to kill. They also didn't technically kill anyone (they knocked them out in the same way all superheroes knock out but totally don't kill anyone).

Also, when Bucky WAS apprehended in public (in front of a bunch of phones), he was locked up with out due process and was NEVER going to get a trial. Not only that, the Sokovia Accords allows the UN (?) to lock up anyone they want in a fucking secret base in the middle of the ocean to do whatever they want with.

[(Anonymous)]

Riiiight, they were going to shoot him on sight. And so...they didn't? Even after he, Steve, and T'Challa killed and/or maimed a whole bunch of people and destroyed buildings, a tunnel, and countless vehicles?

See, that's American cop paranoia at its finest. But this wasn't America.

And they weren't going to give Bucky due process but they let him have a psychologist to evaluate him...for what purpose then, if he was just going to be locked in a prison forever?

You are smoking the good stuff, aren't you? Fess up.

[(Anonymous)]

You know what the cool thing about movies is? You can rewatch them for quotes.

In the movie, they said the German special forces are not going to take them alive. Just like in The Winter Soldier, the ONLY reason Steve/Bucky were not killed was because they were in public. That is literally the only thing that saved them. Or do you think those machine guns were for fun.

When Bucky is brought into UN (?), Steve asks about lawyer. Ross laughs at him about that. So no, he wasn't going to get any kind of due process.

Oh, and remember where Steve's team were at the end of the movie? That is right, the Raft. So unless they had the shortest trials in the history of trials, they were immediately locked away after being captured.

Again, did you watch the movie?

[(Anonymous)]

So what if they decided on a kill order for Bucky because he appeared too dangerous to be brought in safely? That proved to be true, didn't it, when Zemo triggered him. And Bucky was an international assassin and criminal. IT STILL WASN'T STEVE'S DECISION. He broke the law by circumventing the authorities. By going to Bucky first and telling him there was a kill order on him (great idea, Steve, if you wanted to de-escalate the situation. Idiot.) Warning him and then fighting with him against the German task force. So any argument on your part is purely...I dunno. Heartfelt, but not legal.

But it doesn't matter what Sharon Carter *said* (btw, she wasn't on the task force, so she is not the authority, here.) it matters what they did. They didn't kill Bucky. They didn't kill Steve. And they had every reason to. Because they were both, at this point, capital criminals and a threat to public safety. They'd proven it, now. In a really ugly way.

And there is a thing where you actually lock poeple UP before their trial. Trials take a long time to put together, as you said. And when the criminals are superhuman, and have already escaped custody once (killing people in the process) you don't just put them in a regular jail cell.

But whatever, Steve should just be judge and jury, right? His hands are safest. Due process is for...the little people. He gets to decide if Bucky even gets indicted! Because a scientist injected Steve with some blue stuff and then Howard Stark shot him with vitarays. So of course American Steve Rogers decides whether international criminal, The Winter Soldier, can be brought in by an international terrorist task force.

Yup. Truth and Justice, the American Way.

[(Anonymous)]

...Bucky was innocent and they were going for shoot to kill without evidence. How is this hard for you.

[(Anonymous)]

So what if they decided on a kill order for Bucky because he appeared too dangerous to be brought in safely?

What? All they had to do was have Steve bring him in. Or put out a press release asking Bucky to give himself up. It was shown in the movie (and said) that Bucky didn't want to kill people and wanted to be held accountable. He just didn't want to be MURDERED without trial. But fuck him, right?

That proved to be true, didn't it, when Zemo triggered him.

Yes, a tortured man was being mind controlled and used as a weapon. How is that HIS fault? Also, easy solution to that problem would be to keep people away who will use him as a weapon.


They didn't kill Bucky. They didn't kill Steve.

They tried to though. That is the point. If Steve had not warned Bucky, there is a very good chance he could have been executed while just hanging out in his apartment. They would have then killed an innocent man.

And there is a thing where you actually lock people UP before their trial.

Uhhh, as soon as you are arrested you have a right to an attorney. Again, you can't legally just lock someone up without due process. That is illegal. What the UN (?) was doing was ILLEGAL.

You really seem like the kind of person who always supports cops who shoot people, loves Guantanamo Bay, and is for the death penalty.

[(Anonymous)]

THANK YOU! I am so tired of Team Iron Man fans painting everything they did in a rosy light. No, Cap isn't perfect, but he seemed to have a clearer understanding of what those Accords were going to do to/with enhanced persons than Tony ever did.

[(Anonymous)]

I still don't get why businessman Tony would sign a contract and argue "We can change it AFTER signing it!" Where is Pepper when you need her to smack some sense into him?

[(Anonymous)]

Right? I can see the appeal of the Accords, I guess, but from a strictly narrative standpoint, they were awful all around.

[(Anonymous)]

Because every single decision Tony has made since the first Avengers movie has been based on fear, not sense.

It still boggles me that Team Iron Man has such strong objections to everything Steve has done but is willing to give Tony a free pass on Ultron and all the death and destruction that resulted from it because Tony is their precious woobie/cinnamon roll.

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhh, as soon as you are arrested you have a right to an attorney. Again, you can't legally just lock someone up without due process. That is illegal. What the UN (?) was doing was ILLEGAL.

Yes, you can. That's maybe not procedure in the US, but you can certainly lock them up first while waiting for their attorney to arrive. Especially when they are a flight risk.

[(Anonymous)]

It was explicitly stated that Bucky was not getting an attorney at all.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT but I'm convinced that these people somehow managed to watch a completely different movie than the rest of us. #JusticeForRandomBystandersInASuperheroMovie (even though Steve explicitly was preventing casualties and Bucky was shown to be doing the same when /not/ under mind control)

[(Anonymous)]

Literally any character not explicitly killed in a superhero movie, isn't supposed to be dead. That is why Batman can beat the shit out of everyone but still say he doesn't kill. Because superhero magic.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah and let's not forget why they were after Bucky. Because the guy who had his wife and kid killed as a consequence of Tony's actions, framed Bucky by killing T'Challas father.

[(Anonymous)]

Yup, of all the things Tony thinks the Avengers need to be responsible for (New York, Ultron, the crashing Helicarriers, and the small battle at the beginning of Civil War), the only one actually caused by an Avenger was Ultron. Which was made by him because he won't go to fucking therapy.

[(Anonymous)]

Even better, the helicarriers/Project Oversight/Hydra overall was in fact the government, so "government supervision" is really not looking great timeline-wise.

[(Anonymous)]

That is what I never got about Tony's position. Why would he EVER trust any authority group? In his movies they stole his work. In Avengers, they were going to nuke NYC. In The Winter Soldier, SHIELD was controlled by Hydra (who were on the verge of killing thousands instantly). The government was also controlled by Hydra. How on earth can he trust that the UN isn't filled with Hydra operatives? That is sort of their thing.

[(Anonymous)]

The fact that we're apparently supposed to ignore all of that is soooo weird to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, you're somehow claiming Steve Rogers didn't cause the crashing of the helicarriers?

UGH.

[(Anonymous)]

Steve Rogers did in fact crash the helicarriers of doom that were primed and readily to unilaterally assassinate thousands and thousands of people. How dare he.

[(Anonymous)]

Including Tony, if I remember some screenshots correctly.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, definitely including Tony, and basically anyone else that Hydra wanted dead.

[(Anonymous)]

219,571 were minutes away from being executed.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/2/27/Captain_America_-_The_Winter_Soldier_-_Project_Insight_Targets_%28Last_screen%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20160130103605

Tony was absolutely one.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7c/f4/af/7cf4af1c08d54fbfa210e5579d1a8322.png

[(Anonymous)]

the only one actually caused by an Avenger was Ultron. Which was made by him because he won't go to fucking therapy Wanda MIND RAPED HIM WITH A HALLUCINATION OF HIS WORST FEAR.

Fixed that for you.