[ SECRET POST #4100 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4100 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
[Emily Blunt/John Krasinski]


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03.
[Grace and Frankie]


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04.
[rupauls drag race]


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05.
[Donald Trump Jr./Aubrey O'Day of Danity Kane]


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06.
[Knight Squad, Sage and Buttercup]


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07.
[Kristin Ortega from Altered Carbon
Rosa Diaz from Brooklyn Nine-Nine
Amy Santiago from Brooklyn Nine-Nine]


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08.
[Final Fantasy XIII Trilogy]













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #587.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/8DdcNkz.png
[Grace and Frankie]

[(Anonymous)]

people can be religious even if they don't talk about it frequently

[(Anonymous)]

That's not really the point, though. This isn't an issue of religion, it's an issue of characterization. It'd be the same if a character went two seasons without even mentioning the ocean, then all of a sudden the show makes them out to be a huge scuba diving enthusiast and shark handling expert. It happens a lot in tv shows, but that doesn't mean it's not annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't agree that it's bad characterization.

The reason that I think it's not bad characterization is because people can be religious even if they don't talk about it frequently.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. The fact that a lot of things can happen IRL is only relevant up till a point. In fictional media, you're supposed to to set these things up, otherwise it comes out of nowhere. For example, lots of serial killers go undetected by their friends and family, but if the next Captain America movie suddenly has him strangling prostitutes to death with no backstory or context, that's bad writing and poor characterization.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. But it's a matter of degrees - some things are greater departures than others. And I don't think a character just not mentioning anything religious is enough to make a religious scene a character break.

And I think that OP, most likely, is overstating how much of a character break it is based on their distaste for the idea that the scene is only included as a calculated appeal to religious people, which I think is very unlikely, and not really necessary to explain why a character might go to church.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you familiar with this show? Because the woman pictured goes through a really traumatic divorce where she finds out her husband of many, many years is gay and in love with his law partner. She has a terrible time of adjusting, she feels like her life has been turned upside down and everything she's ever known has changed. And not once does she mention religion, or seeing a priest or going to church.

But years later, she finds herself in a moral quandary about whether or not to get involved with an ex boyfriend and suddenly she's in church talking to God?

Oh yes, and later on, she's struggling with the possibility that her best friend might leave her and it's a huge deal...but religion is no longer a factor. So yeah, it doesn't feel like very solid writing.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Even if it's not "bad characterization," it's bad writing to drop this without any hints then.

"Realistic" is not the same as good writing. Especially in fiction.

[(Anonymous)]

Nayrt

Exactly.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think this is the kind of thing where you really need that many hints to set it up

[(Anonymous)]

There were NO hints and NO set up at all.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT - true, but how likely is it, really, that in all the time that's passed, with all that's happened (esp. the first few episodes of the show, which are very emotional and difficult for her, so I'd expect a religious person to want to, y'know, go get some emotional support from their faith?), that not only has she never mentioned her religious beliefs, but none of her friends or family have either? Her ex-husband, her daughters, her best friend - not a word?
Really?

[(Anonymous)]

Real life =/= fiction, though. It's possible to write a plot that could conceivably happen in real life that still isn't executed well. It's apples and oranges.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. But people have a very reasonable expectation for plot coherency in their media in a way that they don't have for real life. That's the whole point of creating a TV show or movie - the goal is to write a script that makes sense, with characters that make sense. A character who previously wasn't shown to be religious at all suddenly coming over all religious without any explanation of why feels out of place... because it is. Trying to handwave it like "oh she was religious all along but we never showed it at all despite many logical opportunities to do so" feels like a cheat... because it is. TV isn't real life. It's planned. Character development is not supposed to feel like random traits popping out of the blue, and if it does, that's not excused by realism, it's sloppy writing.

[(Anonymous)]

I think we're in a privileged position here that not even friends get of seeing characters in private moments. Like I don't go to church all that much lately so an observer might decide I'm not religious, but if I were on a television show, an audience would see that I have a rosary in my coat and pull it out when no one's around.

[(Anonymous)]

Completely out of context (since I've not seen the show) but sometimes people who were taken to church as children and then subsequently lapsed might, at some point in their life, go inside a church at a time of stress thinking that it will give them something. (It generally doesn't, of course.)

+1

[raspberryrain]

I don't watch this show, but in general that's a good explanation for this kind of thing.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I have watched the show, and I'm 100% atheist, but the scene felt completely natural to me for this reason.

It always seemed like Grace was sort of...Nominally Mainstream Protestant, but that it wasn't a focus of her time or emotional energy, so I can see why OP thought it came out of left field. But the circumstances for her suddenly tuning in to that background lip service religiousity were actually pretty unique.

During the divorce, and during the stress of Frankie maybe leaving, there's no issue of what Grace should do, or Grace having to make a huge morally/emotionally difficult decision - she's just dealing with the fallout of other people's decisions, and with the divorce in particular, she has other support, from her children to her friends to (despite their initial hostility) Frankie.

But with the boyfriend thing, she's ashamed that she's interested in a married man, of course she doesn't want to talk about it with her kids, and she's already uncomfortable with Frankie's degree of interference. So in a moment of extremis she tries to hash out her quandry with God. And then the moment passes.

I think it's SUPPOSED to stand out as unlike Grace - Grace is normally totally emotionally repressed! She doesn't have a lot of tools to deal with this. The uncharacteristic turn shows the audience just how much this messing with her, and in that way I think it was really effective.

[(Anonymous)]

It looks like a pretty standard Fearful Moment Church Prayer scene. The kind of scene many dramas and dramadies have when characters are waiting for biopsy results or someone is in a coma or there's a missing kid the whole town is looking for. The whole point is that praying in church isn't just for the most devout and that tragedy or fear can strengthen ones faith, however temporarily. In my parents' case, they've been going to church every week ever since "god saved your mother in answer to our prayers." They were atheists before that and all of their children still are.

[(Anonymous)]

LOL. I happened to know the context of this scene and I'm pretty sure she's asking God if she should fuck an old flame she found on Facebook because he's still married but his wife has Alzheimers.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT - holy shit, dying of laughter rn

[(Anonymous)]

That's prettttttty funny

[(Anonymous)]

If this is true, that makes it worse, IMO. VERY lazy writing.

[(Anonymous)]

I think characterization-wise church is a place to absolve yourself of guilt, not a place to seek counsel or help with fears or dread to this character.

That is why she didn't go there when she lost her marriage or her friend... Only when she wanted to do something she felt guilty for wanting. Different view of religion.

[(Anonymous)]

Nonreligious people going to church over a ridiculous problem is a pretty standard trope in TV.