fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #561 ]

[ SECRET POST #561 ]

⌈ Secret Post #561 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 532 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - Walken is the new Shatner ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

As I said above, and as I keep saying: if the anon meme was just for the lulz, it'd be brilliant (compare the awesome kink meme). And if I was the only person who was hurt or pissed off, maybe it'd be my issue and not yours. But I've seen real harm done by the cyberbullies on that comm. We should stop accepting their spiteful behaviour as just a natural, harmless, amusing part of fandom - 'cos it isn't.

And if it hadn't been for the anonmeme, we wouldn't have had the kinkmeme.

Exactly. People wanted a place to post anonymous kink, and they'd never have admitted it if not for the anon meme.

Real harm? Nobody should take the meme seriously, and if people are going to get all butthurt, they shouldn't read it. Where I'm standing, it's all in good fun, most of the actual people talked about are usually just being LOLed at for making funny looking manips etc. It's hardly the most offensive of communities.

Yeah, yeah. Same old stuff that targets of bullying are always told: that it's our responsibility to feel the right away and act the right way. Well, fuck that. It's the bullies' responsibility not to act like shits.

Teasing is something friends do. When some anonymous asshole says they're only teasing, can't you take a joke, ha ha, they're pulling a classic bullying excuse out of their butts. Fuck 'em.

You can feel like that, but if someone is constantly going on about it they are just drawing even more attention to themselves. It should be water off a duck's back, as my grandmother always puts it.

Yeah, yeah. Smiling and shrugging and playing along doesn't work. I'm done being a good little victim. (And I'm done chatting with your sock.)

Yea, though I walk in the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the biggest son-of-a-bitch in the valley. >:-)

Haha, this isn't actually a sock - I usually lurk at DWF and only recently made an LJ to join/lurk comms over here. But w/e.

This is what you get for trying, Mousie. Don't feed the attention troll.

If you disagree with Kate and go anon, you're a coward. If you log in, you must be friends with one of the hundreds of people that dislike her for a variety of distinct incidents. If you're not, you must belong to a community that allows shipping. If you're not, then you must be a sockpuppet! If you're not, then....

She's clearly a representative for the straw man industry.

for I am the biggest son-of-a-bitch in the valley

Interesting attitude for someone who deplores such horribleness as people discussing fandom contributions.

You know, if you happen to read one of those terrible 'dog-piles' about you, you might want to take notice of what they say. People don't just make shit up and they don't talk about you out of randomness (well, they don't even talk about you much at all, but I'm sure it's what you think it's all about). You deal with people using a bulshy, straw-man filled attitude and *gasp* attack anyone who dislikes you because they must have a hidden agenda. Perhaps people have a problem with your incredible miss-understanding of racism, your patronizing attitude, your inability to mod efficiently, and the condescending, passive-aggressive and sometimes down-right rude way you deal with anyone who disagrees with you.

Just a few suggestions. You know, some people have even described you as a fandom bully? You like that word. And I bet they have more instances to back that up with than you have to talk about terrible toilet-wall ways of the meme.

Of course, you won't listen to this. Do you ever? I'm just another hater, or I'm friends with someone you've pissed off, or...you know, I bet you'll think of a cooler reason to dismiss me than I ever could've come up with. So go about your day, but just remember, if everyone has the same problem with you, maybe you are the one who is wrong.

I don't care much for that meme. It seems too brutal for me. But the meme isn't wrong, because people don't get to seek revenge on people that don't like them. That's just wrong. Wrong is wrong, with or without a name attached.

Thing is, it's much less brutal than most of Who fandom's online venues.

There are corners where you can get good discussion, but only if you're very careful to restrict yourself to a small set of people. The meme's lack of persistent identity means that you can get the same thing with far more people (either that or there are a very few of us posting an awful lot, but I don't think that's the case).

I don't watch Doctor Who, but I've been watching this person tinkle drama at fandomsecrets. It's funny that she doesn't disagree with the tactics, only that she can't directly do the same to people that are anonymous.

That, in a sentence, is why so many people call her out on the anon meme.

White Women's Syndrome for the win!

The thing about really bullying? They don't let you ignore them. They don't give you a choice.

You can, however, avoid the anon meme if it upsets you. People talking about someone is not the same as people harassing someone - at that point, it's your choice to get involved.

Some negativity on the meme is perfectly sensible. Some of it crosses the line. None of it is anything you have to see, have to be involved in, have to be upset by.

You have the ability to ignore something that upsets you, when many people do not. I suggest you make use of it.

There's more to bullying than direct harassment. Malicious gossip and spreading rumours and lies is also bullying. A child can "ignore" a hate Web site set up by school bullies, a college student can "ignore" a vicious non-holds-barred gossip Web site. Will this prevent the cyberbullying from hurting them? No. I never visit the meme, and the shit flung there still sometimes hits me. And I'm not the only one. It's not up to us to dodge the shit - it's up to the nasty little monkeys to quit flinging it.

I suppose we've different definitions.

Those people have to deal with the gossipers in their day to day life. The internet is just one more tool in the arsenal of someone already equipped to hurt them.

The thing about the net - rumours and lies don't hold as much water, because everything is recorded. I can't say the number of times I've seen "links or it didn't happen". From what I've seen, people are ridiculed because of what they say, what they do.

You condemn people for insulting others for their public opinions and actions, and then turn round and call them nasty little monkeys? How is that much different?

When I think of bullying, I think of people talking shit about things others have no control over, like the way they look. The meme forbids that. What I see are people talking shit about the shit other people talk. That's a HUGE difference.

What about *your* spiteful behavior, Kate?

What about your pattern of harassing people who don't agree with you? (See also: the way you've responded to fans of color over the past year or so.) What about the way you assume that anyone who doesn't see things your way is a child to be condescended to, and the way you refuse to acknowledge that yes, other people may have a legitimate interpretation of a text that differs to yours? (See also, everything related to Doctor Who in the past couple of years.)

What about the way you follow some people back to their journals to insult and harass them, even when you know they're not really in a mental/emotional state to cope with that? (I'd name a name, but I can't remember how much was flocked and how much wasn't.)

What about the fact that you've made it clear here that the reason you're so furious about anonymity is that you can't follow us back to our LJs to harass us, even though we don't go to your LJ. We go somewhere else that you don't ever have to be. (And if you have friends who think it's cool to tell you when people don't like you--get better friends.)

In other words, Kate, you still can't have it both ways. If we're nasty bullies, then so are you.

You're not a victim. You're an instigator. You're acting like a spiteful, vicious, petty human being, and when people call you on your shit, instead of re-examining the way you interact with other people, you immediately start playing the victim.

I'm sorry you were bullied in high school. The difference is, those were people you could not avoid. You had to go to school with them. You do not have to be around

who_anon or fandom_wank. (I've been called out by an actual hate meme, and also f_w, before. This caused me to think, "have I done anything wrong?" and when I realized I hadn't (in one case) and that I had (but I'd sorted it all out by that point) in another, I just stopped looking at Journalfen for a few days, and told my friends I didn't care what was being said in the hate meme. And within 24 hours, I felt better.)

It's not bullying if all you have to do is say to yourself, "I'm not going to go and look to see if people are talking about me any more," and it stops being part of your life (no matter what's going on in places where you aren't looking).

And if the thought that someone on the Internet (Which means, in your case, someone who doesn't know you--only your public behavior--and who can be totally avoided just by not going and looking for trouble) doesn't like you--and is saying so in a place you don't like reading anyway-- is causing you to lose sleep, then you need to turn off the computer and go and do something else.

And if you hate bullying so much, I would suggest you look at your online behavior and make sure that it doesn't fit the bill.

--an anon who has been tired of your behavior for a long, long time now

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #561 ]

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