Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-07-20 05:08 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-07-20 05:08 pm
[ SECRET POST #562 ]
⌈ Secret Post #562 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 446 secrets from Secret Submission Post #081.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - Walken ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 132
For one, most mainstream books, movies, and televisions shows aren't going to be as graphic as fanfiction can be. If you pick up a random book in a Barnes & Noble, chances are it's not going to have a gruesome rape scene. I know there are novels out there that may contain explicit rape, but I've never looked at one and wouldn't know one way or another if there is any hint of a warning for non-con. Secondly, moving out of the book realm, some television shows do warn for graphic violence, rape, or other potentially triggering content. And even if they don't warn for that specifically, you might be able to surmise something by "extremely violent content," etc.
And lastly, and most importantly: even if no one in the mainstream entertainment media never warned for rape, that is irrelevant. Ficcers have a choice to warn for triggering content. You can add a small warning that takes an extra few seconds, or you can refuse to do so and instead accept the fact that you are placing the burden on any victim and leaving triggering content out in the open. It's up to author, but then they shouldn't get butthurt when someone calls them on it.
Re: 132
I'm going to have to disagree, especially when it comes to film. Having something visually presented to you like in film can reach levels that words never can, IMHO. The most disturbing scenes that I can bring to mind are all from films - mainstream or not, I'm not sure what qualifies here, because the visual (and audio!) element is so important.
It depends highly on what sort of books you're reading, and I'd hesitate to make that statement. With TV, of course (unless you're on HBO), everything is censored. But there's a difference between a film/TV rating that says 'extremely violent content' and a fic warning that says "dismemberment, deathfic, tort, sadism, blah blah blah."
Why is it irrelevant? Why does mainstream media get a free card, while as ficwriters, convention presses us into writing warnings?
Re: 132
To be clear, I don't think someone should have to warn/label for every single little thing if they don't want, but I do think it's common decency to warn for something that might trigger someone. And since I've heard some people say "but it would ruin the surprise!" (personally, I think if the surprise of rape/graphic torture is more important that not triggering people that's really stupid, but whatever), there are ways to still warn without spoiling everyone else -- you can put the warnings in white text, put it on a different page, or put it at the end of the story with a spoiler space before it, so only people who want to read the warnings have to read them.
If you don't warn, then people are going to be forced to skip anything without a warning; if you do warn like the previous three examples, most people remain unspoiled, but those with triggers still might get to read your story, and you might get feedback. It's a win-win and I don't see what's so hard about it.
Re: 132
(Anonymous) 2008-07-21 04:41 am (UTC)(link)What published fiction have you been reading? YA?
Re: 132
What fiction have you been reading?
Re: 132
(Anonymous) 2008-07-21 04:42 am (UTC)(link)Re: 132
I think there's only been one book I've read where there's been a rape scene, however graphic (A Time to Kill by John Grisham) and some have had violence but nothing incredibly graphic.
Re: 132 (Same anon!)
(Anonymous) 2008-07-21 04:44 am (UTC)(link)Re: 132
I tend to assume that if something is rated R or NC-17, there's either going to be explicit sex or graphic violence or rape. The summary usually gives a pretty good indication of which of the two it's going to be.
Re: 132
I recall one Harry Potter fic, for example -- I can't recall if it had any warnings and if so which ones, but it was rated NC-17 and the summary was something along the lines of it being an alternate universe in which Voldemort won and Harry Potter because the slave/toy of the Death Eaters. For that story, I certainly assumed there would be torture, rape, and other dark themes.
However, not all summaries are so upfront. And unless you're on a site like Fanfiction.Net, FictionAlley, etc., with categories, a fic may not be classified as such. A lot of people who archive on LiveJournal or their own websites don't categorize their stories under a certain genre.
I've read numerous stories in which the summary makes the story sound like a typical, fluffy or at least happy get-together story. And then bam, in the middle you get a rape scene. (Same for stories with things like child abuse.) Sometimes it's because for some reason the author doesn't think it's rape (which is a larger problem; I had to leave one fandom because practically every fic, no matter how "fluffy" the summary claimed to be, somehow mentioned rape [and it had nothing to do with canon, backstory, etc]) or because the author just plain refuses to provide an accurate warning or even summary, many times even after being politely asked by a number of people to do so.
Re: 132
See, the only problem with that is that not everyone considers a mere mention of rape to be worthy of warning about. I wouldn't warn if I just mentioned that it happened but didn't go into graphic detail because it simply wouldn't occur to me to do so. Not everyone gets squicked by the same things. Personally, I have a big squick about eyes... anything about gouging out or otherwise damaging eyes = no no no do not want for me. However, that's not something that most people would warn for specifically, and I don't feel that I have any right to get upset over not being warned for something that happens to bother me.
I guess what it comes down to is that no one is really OBLIGATED to warn for anything if they don't really want to. I don't get warnings on the books that I buy, so I tend not to expect them on fics either. If an author does warn, fine, that's cool. If not, there's always the back button.
Re: 132
My main point was that I encountered numerous stories in which the rating and summary lead one to believe it's a happy, safe story -- or at lest doesn't contain any dark themes -- and then all of the sudden you have a graphic rape scene. It's not that you can't deduce the story from the summary, it's that the author posts a very misleading one.
And I would guess that the number of rape victims combined with the number of people who may not have been raped but are still very upset by it is much greater than the number of people who are squicked by eyes being damaged. That's a totally legitimate squick and I understand that, but while it's true that you can't expect everything to be catered to, it's not as hard to warn for something that's well-known to be not just a squick but a trigger to many people.
Re: 132
If the rating is misleading, then I'd consider that to be worthy of complaint because I DO believe if you're going to employ the rating system as a courtesy to your readers that you should do it properly. Trying to sneak graphic stuff into a PG-13 fic isn't cool because a lot of readers rely on ratings to make decisions about what they read. But again, they're not really under any obligation to rate their fics either... just to rate it properly if they do choose to do so.
Re: 132
Especially when there's so many different ways to warn that makes a win-win situation for everyone. I see absolutely no reason for someone to refuse to warn in any way, shape, or form, for triggering things like rape. It takes a few extra seconds, keeps people from getting upset, and potentially gains some readers. Wow, we can't do that.
Re: 132
See, my point is, why should the author be forced to warn if they don't want to? Sure, it's the courteous thing to do, but it's their fic and if they don't want to warn for anything that's their own choice. People have the right be upset by it, but I don't think they should feel that they therefore have the right to dictate what an author does with his or her fic.
I'm not claiming to understand it, I just dislike the mindset that an author is somehow obligated to do anything with their own work.
Re: 132
No one's forcing them to warn. There is no law making the author warn. But the only legitimate reason I can really see to not do so is if the author doesn't want to "spoil" certain parts for other readers. However, there are ways to still warn for those who need it without spoiling others -- whiting it out, placing it on another page that you have to follow a link to get to, putting it at the bottom of the story with a spoiler space, etc. If you still refuse to do any of those, I can't see any other reason than just plain "I dun wanna! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!" Which someone has every right to do, but I also have every right to criticize them for being inconsiderate.
Re: 132
Re: 132
I've seen tons of people use the white spoiler space, but the other two are less common in my experience. I understand someone not wanting to spoil other readers, but it's when someone outright refuses other options, even when someone politely explains why it's upsetting without warnings and suggests alternative ways to warn, that really gets me. That, to me, is just being stubborn.
Re: 132