[ SECRET POST #4136 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4136 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 23 secrets from Secret Submission Post #592.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Look on the bright side, they probably don't have the same oh-so-icky political beliefs as the real deal.

[(Anonymous)]

The poser pop-country stars - demographically speaking - probably have ickier political beliefs than the real-deal ones. For instance, support for Trump was stronger among upper- and middle-class white voters than among working-class white voters.

It is deeply incorrect to blame poorer voters for bad policy and electoral outcomes. It is also extremely pernicious, distracting, and generally shitty.

[(Anonymous)]

Seconding this entire post. Thank you.

I also agree with the sentiment of this secret in general. I live in an area where LOTS of people listen to country music, and have heard some of it on the local radio stations as a result, and a lot of it definitely comes off feeling rather phony to me as well.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not blaming anyone. I have no problem with "icky" political beliefs. I can separate people from their politics.

That said, I would assume celebrities have to toe a more cautious line than Bubba from the trailer park. And as a southerner, I'm LMAOing at your naive belief that Bubba didn't vote for Trump.

[(Anonymous)]

And as a southerner, I'm LMAOing at your naive belief that Bubba didn't vote for Trump.

Yes, many lower-class white voters did vote for Trump. But - demographically speaking - more upper- and middle-class white voters did.

[(Anonymous)]

Not in Dixie, dear.

[(Anonymous)]

So you think that upper and middle-class whites in the South don't support Donald Trump?

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't say anything remotely like that.

But in the south - you know, the heartland of country music - I don't think MORE upper- and middle-class voters supported Trump.

Is that a "generally shitty" enough opinion for you? Keeping in mind that you are the one making the moral judgment about political leanings here, not me.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a buttload of different stuff here so this is going to be long and disjointed so, sorry I guess.

It's difficult to find empirical data about voter preferences on a state-by-state level that also breaks down by race *and* income, so I don't have the empirical grounds to say. Obviously, in most of the South, white voters did support Trump by significant amounts across all income levels. I think there's a significant likelihood that white voters in the South followed the same demographic patterns as white voters in the rest of the country, but sure, I can't conclude that as a fact. So that's the empirical side.

With regards to the moral and political stuff - on one level, the question of who supports specific "icky" political beliefs is a question of fact. Like, people either do or don't support things. Empirically, working-class white people are not especially to blame for this, and putting the blame on them is wrong, and makes it much more difficult to understand how those policies actually come into existence. So that's on one level.

On another level, you have the question of whether we should call certain political beliefs "icky" at all, or make moral judgments about political beliefs. And you seem to be very opposed to this idea. Which, honestly, confuses me. I do think that some political beliefs are morally wrong. I do think that some political beliefs are icky. It seems fairly intuitive to me and I'm not really sure why you disagree. Political beliefs are often moral beliefs. And government policies have real, meaningful impacts on the lives of people. So it's a little bit bewildering to me why you can't make moral judgments about those things. And definitely, when you get to things like racism - I very strongly do think that racism is immoral. If that's wrong or unfair, please explain to me why, because I don't see it.

Now, obviously, not everything is as clear-cut as racism, and you shouldn't assume that everything is black and white, there's a lot of complexity. And no human person is entirely reducible to their political beliefs or even their political action. And believing that someone is morally faulty doesn't mean that you necessarily have to ignore their humanity. So I'm not saying any of that. But, yeah, I do think that some political beliefs are morally wrong. I'm curious what part of that you disagree with.

I really don't know where you're coming from. As far as I can tell, it's mostly that political leanings are entirely amoral and it's wrong to make moral judgments about people based on political actions? But I'm also kind of confused about why you brought up "icky political beliefs" in the first place.

So, again, sorry for the long post, but I'm trying to be as clear as possible.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

The electoral influence of true "Bubbas" is radically overstated. More Americans work in museums than coal mines for example.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yep. Dolly Parton, for instance, has done amazing work supporting poor kids' literacy. Johnny Cash advocated for prisoners and refused Nixon's request that he sing songs (not ones he'd written) mocking hippies and welfare recipients, and sang about the mistreatment of Native American vets instead - and sang "Man in Black", which is an entire song about how Cash understood his role as an artist to be to give voice to the poor and oppressed. Glenn Campbell, who was a share-cropper's kid, wasn't exactly woke (he was much less sympathetic to the anti-war movement than Cash and he played for the RNC a few times), but he was still a registered Democrat.

[(Anonymous)]

Glenn Campbell, who was a share-cropper's kid, wasn't exactly woke (he was much less sympathetic to the anti-war movement than Cash and he played for the RNC a few times), but he was still a registered Democrat.

Unfortunately, someone born in a rural area of a center-south state in 1936 being a registered Democrat is not at all an indicator of wokeness

[tree_and_leaf]

OK, fair point, but Parton and Cash still count.

[(Anonymous)]

The icky political beliefs of, say, Willie Nelson?