Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2018-05-29 06:45 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2018-05-29 06:45 pm
[ SECRET POST #4164 ]
⌈ Secret Post #4164 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #596.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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I mean, I don't expect you to change your mind on this - the language you're using shows an unwillingness to bend, an unwillingness to see your opponents as anything other than how the media painted them - but as an example of the kinda shit I'm talking about, how do you feel about what the mainstream media is doing to elon musk right now? teaming up to do a smear job?
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(Anonymous) 2018-05-30 05:35 pm (UTC)(link)I've been on a mountain behind mudslides for a chunk of this week, what is going on with Musk?
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They also got various outlets to change their policies.
And had the SPJ condemn the practices of the games media.
Like, I admit a lot of people under the gamergate tag did a lot of shitty things, but they are hardly the majority. Honestly I'm growing more and more exhausted with this shit each and every day, so I may not be the right guy for you, but can I make a suggestion that you look into sources on the other side? It sounds like all your experience with this comes from one side. I suspect the media side.
The Elon Musk thing is another whole heap of shit I don't really have the energy for. It's out there. Not trying to be a dick, but maybe hit up google.
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Most of this comes directly from the horse's mouth, GG sources that have not been especially shy at ginning up conspiracy theories about "sjws" destroying the hobby by making more games.
Re. Musk: He's been overpromising Tesla production for years, factory-floor labor problems are common in the industry, his statements about it are outrageous, the press is likely making a bigger deal out of it than they should. There's no good guy there. How is that relevant?
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(Anonymous) 2018-05-30 10:31 pm (UTC)(link)And Sarkeesian is a plagiarising con artist. This inparticular is not a matter of opinion, that's a fact.
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I don't really care that much about Total Biscuit, and I'm sorry for his family's loss. But yelling about "SJWs" in half of the game releases and brigading bad reviews within hours after release in order to punish developers is both stupid and bad for the industry. No, it's not an SJW conspiracy when developers follow the money to a wider market.
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Fuck it I'mma drop this, and then I'm done.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/663.875491-Lets-talk-about-Nathan-Graysons-ethical-breach
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The rest of the piece establishes that:
1. Grayson met and knew Quinn.
2. Grayson wrote multiple articles about Quinn's work.
Which is just what journalists do as part of the job, meet and know people who work in the field they cover. That's not evidence of a relationship that needs to be disclosed, unlike EA dictating the terms of Sims 2 coverage to PC Gamer back in the day. Curiously, the focus of GG was games backed by indie developers, where women happen to be involved, and not the massive advertising pressure.
It's relevant because this was the point at which the same old misogynist wing rebranded as GG around the harassment of a jealous ex lover who wasn't remotely credible and retracted many of the claims when regret kicked in. This was also the claim at which most of us who care about games, and have been critical of mainstream gaming coverage since you were a young chick, decided to nope out of that particular flavor of crazy. It's also an area where you've doubled down on the principle that Quinn must have been a time-traveling prostitute for coverage rather than admit you were wrong.
Now then. It's not remotely a strawman to point out that the initial genesis of GG was misogynist harassment, nor is it a strawman to point out that "ethics in games journalism" was cover for misogyny. GG has a shit reputation among gamers (outside of the GG reality bubble) because we saw what they actually did, and the same groups and subreddits are continuing to do this month with Battlefield, Battletech, and Solo. Useful idiots like yourself are not very credible as cover because we see through your bullshit and your no true scotsmen. GG has not advanced discussion about ethics in games journalism, or games production.
Re. Gaming is dying. What a precious snowflake you are. You would think that after goth is dead, punk is dead, metal is dead, and rock is dead that "gaming is dead" would be a badge of honor. (Other things that are dead, art, cinema, classical music, and photography.) If you actually bothered to read those articles, you would be astonished to discover that gaming is more vibrant than ever. Just last year, 50% of the worldwide revenue in gaming came from the Asian-Pacific region. 50% of gaming revenue is mobile. Women have been a majority of the American market for over a decade. What's dying is the dominance of an industry-created subculture that was phony as heck and dedicated to convincing young male adults to buy crap.
The good news is that you can have your cake and eat it too here. There are publishers which will cater to the industry-created subculture of 10 years ago. There are publishers who recognize that games are the new TV and seek wider and more diverse audiences. Clinging to the former while yelling at the latter just makes you the old man in the conversation yelling at the cloud. Which is ridiculous for a man of your age to pull.
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1: No, Greyson may not have been in love with quinn, but he was in a - let's just presume a non-romantic - relationship with quinn that turned romantic. He also invested and supported her development financial. NEITHER of these things were disclosed. Glossing over that part? But really that's not the key thing. You keep bringing it back to grayson and the rest... actually no, you just keep bringing it back to grayson, presumably because you think that is your strongest position, but you keep ignoring the other points. Greyson was the spark, the catalyst, the thing that SHOULD have been a footnote represented by articles in other gaming publication "Journalists fail to be open about connection to developer" What it was was literally NONE of that. Journalists dropped any interest in covering the possibility of a journalist doing somthing shitty, in favour of covering the shitty practices of their entire industry and reframe it about Zone Quinns sex life.
Don't get me wrong, there was a lot to report about the shit Quinn was getting. I don't deny a fair number of people didn't care about the journalist side and just wanted to attack quinn. But that is not the entirety of the thing. That is not even the majority of the thing. Your belief that because it started with the quinn "scandal" then that all it ever was is a direct result of an entire media industry PAINTING it as nothing more than the quinn "scandal". It was not. See the far from exhaustive list provided above relating to things we were fucked off about.
And no, you did not see what gamergate actually did. You saw an awful lot of shitty behaviour, some of which by people in gamergate true, and the media told you "This is all gamergate is" and you believe it. I mean for fuck sake, when there are articles out there saying gamergate is responsible for Trump, do you just nod your head and say "Yeah, that seems right" or do you think, "Huh, that sounds like a smear job?"
"Gamers did a bad thing, and since they did a bad thing the were probably part of a bad movement like gamergate, so really gamergate is responsible for this." seems to be your logic behind attributing the Battlefield debacle with gamergate.
And again being disingenuous when you re-framing "Gamer are dead" (an attack on an identity which I can accuratly paraphrase as "We in the gaming press don't need to cater to gamers because they are all cellar dwelling misogynist white straight cis males") as "Gaming is dying" a comment on the state of the industry and people engagement in it.
"GG has not advanced discussion about ethics in games journalism, or games production." You know, it really has. Only you're choosing not to be a part of that conversation. Again see all the shitty moves up thread that have been brought to wider public knowledge because of gamergate. I only know about some of them BECAUSE of gamergate.
Also a fair number of direct insults to me in that thread as well. Snowflake, useful idiot, I might be wrong because I was tired last night, but I don't think I've been insulting you before this point, have I?
ALSO also, which is it? am I a useful idiot, or am I deliberately misleading you? I'm not saying Gamergate had no shitbags in it. I am not saying they are not part of gamergate. I am saying they are not the entirity of gamergte, and I am saying that people within gamergate tried to keep those shitbags from doing too much damage. Funny how the media never seemed to report on the fact that it was gamergater that uncovered several of Sarkeesian and Wu's harrassers.
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(Anonymous) 2018-05-30 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)Guess what, I don't give a shit about Gamergate. But Wu is a delusional idiot and Sarkeesian is a con artist and no amount of strawmanning comments of yours that are entirely unrelated to anything I wrote will change that.
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Wu and Sarkeesian are a developer and ... a Pundit? professional complainer? Hack? I don't know. the fact that the media gave sarkeesian as much attention as they did is sketchy and slightly nepotistic, but that's all it is. It's not on her to not promote herself. It's not even on the journalists to not promote her, but you remember when the media had out backs against Thompson making the same accusations?
There was also Jeff Gertsman who got fired because he gave a bad review Kane and Lynch when the publisher was advertising with his outlet. Blip, you gone buddy.
There's the various journalists working together behind the scenes to push a narrative. UNDECLARED collusion.
There's the black-listing of Liana Kerzner for not toeing the line.
There's various cases of Jornos just blatantly not doing their job AND STILL having a job to neglect to do, be cause fuck you they're our friend and gamers are dead anyway right? see for example: Euro Gamer Vs Adventurine on Darkfall, Polygons Rockband 4 Review by Colin Campbell.
There is a literal army of cases of "Gifts" being given to journos WITHOUT journos feeling the need to disclose them.
The pay for play reviews (You remember the Gamespy Donkey kong shitshow? Actually Nintendo kept doing this, and funnily enough these Games Jornos never seemed to want to write about it. None of them ever called out their competitors. Wonder why? Maybe because they were fucking all doing it?)
And bigger than all of that there is the entire industry working together to dismiss and bury these accusations and labelling anyone who forwards them as misogynists, being openly hostile to their readers and declaring they must be straight white and male in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It was a transparent smear attempt to shift focus from their wrongdoings.
AND IT FUCKING WORKED.
Admit it, how many of those examples cited above had you actually heard of? The The Liana one? The Gertsman one? The Mailing list collusion? That about it?
And there you are up there using the same tactic. Anything bad a person does online, well, we can tie it to gamergate can't we? TRUMP was apparently gamergates fault. Gamergate is not a thing anymore. So, no, Gamergate has no interest in Battlefield.
Were it still a thing, it would not have an interest in Solo. That's a movie.
Comicsgate, however much they want to be gamergate, are not gamergate. Chiefly because they do not have comics media openly slandering. They are a different thing entirely. Probably some cross over in people who identify with them, but I'm not going to be copping any shit for what they do.
I don't doubt that some gamergaters hate solo, or hate Battlefield, but it is no-longer a movement.
Re Musk: He openly stated he wanted journalists to be held accountable and journalists started calling him racist sexist antisemitic etc. You... You don't see anything fishy with that?
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(Anonymous) 2018-05-30 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
I'm not objective, I'm not fence sitting, because I'm on the right side of this. I know my side better than you do. and I know my opponents side better than you do.
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(Anonymous) 2018-05-30 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)Nothing that I have ever seen you post on this site has given me the slightest reason to take anything you're saying here at all seriously, or to give you any credit whatsoever.
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