[ SECRET POST #4175 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4175 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #598.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The only thing that bothers me is how tacky it looks. It's just really thin pieces of metal. As a celebrity, maybe they could've done a better job and get a proper stone statue, or heck even a highly ornate mausoleum that makes people's faces melt off from sheer beauty (seriously, ecclesiastical art can be beautiful). This is just in bad taste design wise. The skyline would've been better without a reminder of laziness in it.

[(Anonymous)]

Same anon as above, now continuing: If someone wants to show their faith to god as a celebrity or as someone with more means than others, perhaps an act of good work would've done instead. Feed some homeless folks, donate to a charity, construct a structure (vaguely religious if you want) that does good for the community, etc., and get some memories. Displays of faith without good deeds is... my inner theologian wants to say "vulgar", but I'm just going to say tacky. So many beautiful ways to display faith, but a lazy stick job is honestly pretty lmao.

[(Anonymous)]

Your inner theologian can just say "faith without works is dead," maybe throw in some references to Pharisees and call it day. Your inner landscaper has a good eye, though. The giant stick crosses are hella tacky.

[(Anonymous)]

My only religious family member was my paternal grandma, who was Catholic. Technically my mom’s parent’s and dad’s dad were Catholic too, but they didn’t seem to be believers, it was more a cultural thing. And I’ve never been to a church except for a couple funerals or to look at the archetecture.

But I thought that Catholics are big into holy works, but there’s entire sects of Christianity where doing good stuff for other people doesn’t count for shit in a religious context, the only thing that matters is faith in Jesus as the son of God, or that you were preselected in some kind of celestial raffle, or reading the Bible a lot, or converting other people. Are there other branches of Christianity where Christ-like behavior is a big deal?

[(Anonymous)]

It's... complicated. Doing good stuff for other people is obviously a good thing, but the idea that you can in any way earn or merit salvation turns out to be wildly theologically problematic. Even with Catholics - yes, Catholics place more theological emphasis on good works than many Protestant sects do, but Catholics still would generally not come out and say that good works get you into heaven.

At the same time, most divisions of Christianity - at least in theory - would say that good works are a crucial and central part of Christianity, and that faith without works is empty and meaningless ("What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works... faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead"). And, again, Catholicism does place slightly more doctrinal emphasis on this idea than many other Christian sects. But at the same time, all Christian sects are human institutions and go a long way from fulfilling that ideal. And Catholics have built plenty of astonishingly beautiful and luxurious churches and cathedrals and monuments for the greater glory of God.

So, again - complicated.

[feotakahari]

I’ve heard it argued from the opposite angle. It’s not that God rewards you for good deeds. It’s that the kind of people God rewards happen to be genuinely selfless people who would do good deeds even if they didn’t benefit. (I think this is what Calvinists believe.)

[(Anonymous)]

That may be the case; I'm not really familiar enough with the details of Calvinist soteriology to say for sure, but it does sound like it's in the same ballpark as the whole predestination dealio.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, that's Calvinism. If you're a good person you just naturally want to do all these good things - your deeds reveal what kind of person you are. You can't earn salvation or improve your soul by good deeds. If you do bad things (or just don't do good things) obviously that shows what kind of person you are, too.

[(Anonymous)]

this is very balanced and well put. Thank you

[(Anonymous)]

Most of them at least pay lip service to the concept, because how will anyone know that you won the celestial raffle if you're not Christlike in your behavior?

But, with the caveat that the religious and secular definitions of good deeds don't always line up exactly, the Catholics, the Mormons, the Episcopalians, and the Congregationalists all have "do charitable works" as part of what you have to do to be a member in good standing.

[(Anonymous)]

"Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be done in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

"And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

[(Anonymous)]

As a Jew, it's stuff like this that makes me have no patience for Jesus. A good deed is a good deed. You brag about fine, you're a douche, but good was still done, and the feeling in your heart about it doesn't affect that good. And when your sins and good deeds are weighed against each other, the good you bragged about is still gonna go into the scale on the side of good. The bragging is not going to be more important.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, that's a totally fair point of view.

but FWIW, the whole basic concept of weighing the good deeds and the sins in the balance against each other - this is not so much a Christian thing, theologically speaking. It's the sacrifice of Jesus and the intervention of divine grace that leads to salvation (in general, and the precise details of how that takes place vary enormously across different sects and confessions).

[(Anonymous)]

It all ties back into humility, which isn't a strictly christian virtue, but does have a christian take.

Basically, the faithful should be humble in the knowledge that redemption is a gift that wasn't earned. Good works are an outward extension of God's grace. So when arrogant christians call undue attention to how pious and charitable and holier-than-thou they are, it's a sin because the person either genuinely believes that they are more deserving of redemption than anyone else or because they don't have faith that they are truly redeemed and are looking for validation from other people. Either way, it belittles the gift of God's grace.

So, the bragging doesn't turn a good deed into a bad one, but it's symptomatic of something not right with your personal faith.

[tabaqui]

I 100 percent agree. Yay, you stuck a couple of big pieces of metal (or wood) in the ground. Whooo.

How about instead help some people, feed some kids, house some homeless, fight some injustice?

[(Anonymous)]

I think some people honestly do believe that doing things like erecting a big cross counts as a good work because they think it will bring about conversions* or at least make people think about Jesus more. The latter surely does happen, and some would see it as a benefit to the world at large, even if it's not actually improving any individual person's sdituation.

*There is definitely the notion among some people that the only reason anyone isn't Christian is because they were somehow not aware it was an option, despite living in Christian-majority countries.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, this was my experience as an evangelical christian: "witnessing." wear a cross, wear a Jesus shirt, put a Jesus fish on your car, put a christian soldier flag on your flagpole, because it's bearing witness to Jesus and everyone who sees it will be so curious about it that they'll just naturally ask about it and then you can evangelise at them.

in 10 years no one ever asked me about my necklace, my shirt, my fish, or anything else. it doesn't actually work like that. I can attest that christians of this ilk can't even conceive that other people may have had bad experiences with religion or have genuinely thought over the idea of god and decided "not for me." they think you just don't know about Jesus. like, even your liturgical church growing up didn't really teach you about the real Jesus. it's a masterful delusion.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Sticking a big cross in the ground with no context is more likely to just turn people off. Without reaching out and speaking to people there's no connection, no really witnessing.

[(Anonymous)]

That kind of witnessing is certainly a lot easier than actually engaging with people, and lower risk than entering into a religious debate where you might not succeed in convincing anyone of anything. Putting a fish on your car is harmless, but if you think that's where you get to stop, then the attitude behind that is pretty lazy and condescending. For all I know, Cris Pratt donates money to charity or something, so whatever.