[ SECRET POST #4217 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4217 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #603.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/0jO1CZV.png

[(Anonymous)]

What about vigilantes who are mere millionaires? Upper-middle class vigilantes?

[(Anonymous)]

They do interest me but I also sympathize with and understand your point of view, it's a weird thing when you really look at it

[(Anonymous)]

I just see it as wish fulfillment.

[(Anonymous)]

I can see that with Iron Man - the alcoholism is a little rough, but I guess that's not part of the fantasy.

But Batman? That's a pretty fucking dark wish to be fulfilling.

[feotakahari]

So’s Drizzt Do’Urden, and look at how popular he got. And it’s not like Shadow the Hedgehog is sunshine and roses. Some people really like the idea that you can still be a hero if, or even because, you’re an outcast who’s lost your family.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, but not just losing your family, but also (a) being an emotionally crippled wreck and then subsequently (b) getting basically no joy from your enormous wealth and devoting your life primarily to beating the shit out of street-level thugs.

It seems a level beyond even Drizzt-level Grizzled Outcast.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT
I took the secret as more general and not about those specific iterations of either character. For Batman, it really depends on which Batman you're talking about. He's not a drunk maladjusted asshole in every iteration. I don't know Iron Man so well so I can't speak on him but Batman has moments where he's got his family (Alfred, Robins, etc.) and his purpose and hope.

But the wish fulfillment aspect isn't the specific character traits. It's not being Batman specifically; it's being a billionaire vigilante. It's being a billionaire with the means to do whatever you want. It's the wish to beat up someone, either to seek justice you can't get in real life, or to exert violence without consequences. And, this extends to the fact that if you are Batman or Iron Man, most storylines paint the bad guys as unambiguously bad so there's none of the consequences that come with being a vigilante in real life. It is wish fulfillment. It's not something created by actual billionaires after all.

[(Anonymous)]

Even there, like... I get the wish fulfillment of being a billionaire but I have to say that if I was a billionaire, running around and beating people up definitely would not be first on my list of things to do.

[(Anonymous)]

It's two different wish fulfillment things paired together. People often wish to be vigilantes to just mete out justice their own way. That's a very popular trope, often in revenge stories. And then to have all the money in the world to do things however you want.

It's not rocket science. I don't want to be a vigilante and it's not how I would spend my money but I've seen enough media to know that a lot of people enjoy it. It IS wish fulfillment, just not your wish fulfillment. And that's okay. Not everything is about you.

[feotakahari]

Maybe it’s the same framework as vampire narratives where the vampire eats everyone he doesn’t like.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh hey. I think this was my secret I was too lazy to make. Thanks anon!

My thoughts were that I just can't relate to these guys. They have so much wealth and influence, and they put on masks and beat people up? They could do so much more for the world than that. I know they write in altruism like Bruce funding the orphanage, but come on. You complain about corrupt politicians but you don't run for office or use your influence to fix the root of the problem? You just beat up the henchmen. That is a bandaid solution. No wonder Gotham is such a shithole.

[(Anonymous)]

Am now side-tracked by what a horrible politician Bruce Wayne would be.

[tabaqui]

AND Tony, really, if you think about it.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - Tony would be even worse than Bruce.

[(Anonymous)]

Marvel actually published a story around the idea that Tony is a ridiculous fascist once given a shot at political power.

Bruce's civic spirit at least has done constructive things. Tony funded the Avengers early on, and gets credit for that; but otherwise he's terrible at being a superhero.

[(Anonymous)]

He'd be great, his whole life is already a lie anyway

[(Anonymous)]

The thing with Bruce in specific is that most of the recent iterations of the character don't want to fix the root of the problem. He might talk a good game when he's in the Bruce persona, but he's ultimately lashing out with the very specific intent to hurt people and vent all of his maladjusted rage on what he considers to be acceptable targets. If he happens to accidentally punch his way into fixing the shithole that is Gotham, cool, but actually cleaning shit up through legitimate means would mean giving up his target-rich environment and maybe having to get some therapy instead of putting on a bat mask and hitting people.

[(Anonymous)]

See, I could get behind this interpretation of his character. The problem I have with him (and Tony I guess) having status as a folk hero (certainly in the Nolan films) is that it's undeserved. He's not engaging in this activity because it's the only means he has of challenging these powerful criminal networks. He's doing less than he really can - given who he is, and essentially playing a really expensive game of dress-ups, so he can hit people and feel better for personal reasons. I just don't see it as heroic because sometimes he almost dies.

[(Anonymous)]

If you plant a tree when you could have planted a forest, it doesn't make that tree a shitty tree that you should feel bad for planting.

[(Anonymous)]

Tony Stark at least interests me very much, but the billionaire part isn't really why, it's just the part that allows some of the other parts free reign. The things about Tony that interested me were the surviving torture, dealing with unwilling body modification, building things, having full AI, the whole science hero thing. Him being a billionaire just means he has the resources to go whole hog on just about anything, which frees up story space for the actual building shit. (Of course, he can build stuff just as well with the contents of a terrorist armoury or a Walmart, no billions required, but things like the AI need a bit more backing).

Bruce I'll admit I was never all that interested in, even though I'm primarily a DC fan and even primarily a Batfamily fan. It's just that Bruce himself was pretty much always the least interesting part of his clan and city for me. He's there to hang the rest of it around, he's a great focal point, but he's not exactly the most fascinating character floating around his city. I just love Gotham as this perpetual dieselpunk hellhole full of crazy people and everyone else trying to work around them, and Batman makes a handy loadbearing wall to build it around.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, and Iron Man doesn't tend to run around beating up minions or street-level crime like Batman does. It's a different kind of story. (And honestly, the few times I've like Batman are when he's been in a different kind of story, too.)

[(Anonymous)]

^^^This.

[(Anonymous)]

What a brave secret. I don't like superheroes movies at all and I'll tell anybody who asks.

[(Anonymous)]

👍