fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4244 ]

[ SECRET POST #4244 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4244 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Jane Austen's Emma]

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05. [SPOILERS for The 100]

[Monty Green/Harper McIntyre]

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06. [WARNING for discussion of incest]

[The 100]

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07. [WARNING for discussion of fictional shota/bestiality/rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #607.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Not like in a preachy/Very Special Episode kind of way where the story revolves around it (maybe just a brief explanation since not everyone knows what it means), but just a regular story that happens to have an asexual character or two. Is that ok or too Tumblr-y?

....I don't think I would notice? It would just be a book without romance?

yeah sfine

What the first anon said. Unless they keep mentioning that they are asexuals, they won't be any different from characters that just aren't currently seeing anyone.

Is the asexuality as such relevant, at all? I personally don't tell people I'm "asexual", but that I've never been interested in romance or sex. Discussing asexuality in fiction has a regreable tendency to come across as performative, because asexuality IS The Invisible Orientation. Where same-sex partners can be casually mentioned, there is no way to CASUALLY bring up that a character lacks sexual attraction, and a number of other reasons why someone wouldn't want to have sex.

By which I mean that I'd love to see more legit asexual characters, but I don't think it would be easy to make the word "asexual" an organic part of the story.

This. I'm having a hard time thinking of situations where it could come up organically without feeling forced or performative.

Somebody hits on the character (in a way that's sympathetic/likable) and they say "no, sorry, I'm asexual"?

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 01:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 04:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 04:40 (UTC) - Expand

This exactly.

I don't think it would be easy to make the word "asexual" an organic part of the story.

What about not specifically using the word, but just mentioning that they're not interested when it's relevant to the conversation? Like maybe if they think someone is interested in them sexually, they just say they aren't into sex or something along those lines.

Yeah, I think that sounds like a better way to go about it :)

"Come on, let's get you a date/hook-up."

"Sorry, not really interested. Ever."

But what actually makes that better than if they said "Sorry, I'm asexual" instead? What would be wrong with that?

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 09:26 (UTC) - Expand

I'm not against the idea, but I'm doubtful most writers can pull it off. Even the brief explanation you're talking about sounds both awkward and after school specialish.

How about no mention of the word asexual at all, and no explanation, just someone saying they're not interested in sex when it's relevant to the conversation?

That's probably the best way, but you'd still have to be careful about setting up the context. A conversation between the people involved about sexual attraction would have to feel organic vs. people having that discussion specifically for the purpose of the ace character being able to identify themselves.

Ehhh... I think the main hurdle here is that it doesn't take much to make something like this feel preachy/Very Special Episode. An explanation might make it worse in a "As you know, Bob..." sort of way:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AsYouKnow

This isn't 100% analogous but I'm a female POC. While that's fairly obvious from my appearance, it also rarely comes up in conversation. Most strangers are too polite to ask or simply don't care. My friends and family don't discuss it for the same reason why we rarely discuss the fact that we have arms and legs. There are few occasions when my race/ethnicity comes up in casual conversation, i.e. conversation that isn't specifically about race/racial issues. Obviously fiction isn't the same as real life and fictional conversations tend to be more relevant to the plot, less prone to trivial small talk, etc. But conversations about being asexual still need to have a credible context.

An author would need to consider a few things:

* Is there a compelling reason for asexuality or that specific character's asexuality to come up in casual conversation besides the author wanting to insert it? Otherwise, it's going to feel like it's coming out of nowhere because well, it is.

* Is this conversation taking place between people who would ordinarily discuss each other's sexual orientations? Two friends who are comfortable with one another might openly and easily talk about this. Two co-workers or casual acquaintances... maybe not.

* Is this conversation in character? Most people don't talk like an educational documentary about LBGQT issues. They don't explain what a demi-sexual is to the room like they're a professor delivering a college lecture. Any dialogue has to make sense for the character who's speaking, it can't just be heavy handed exposition.

I don't think it's impossible, but I do think it's difficult. Especially if you're determined to use the label, explain the label, etc. That won't necessarily sound natural.

Depending on how it's done, but it's not really hard to do. I really don't think you have to have the character announce "I am asexual and here is a Very Special Episode about what that means" in order to be convincing. I can list a ton off the top of my head from real life experience that don't sound like After School Special:

>Characters are discussing other characters or celebs they find hot. Acey can't think of any and feels uncomfortable. They may not even know why! They blurt out some random names they figure are popular enough and are surprised it works. Nobody else notices

>Characters are giving glaring clues or doing suggestive things. Or are walking through some area full of sexual or suggestive things. Acey doesn't notice, or if they do, are totally unaffected. Maybe they find it funny and awkward instead

>You can even go meta with it! Other characters are described as lithe and supple or brawny or stunning other conventionally attractive adjectives and Acey has brown hair and looks nice enough, whatever that means

>Have THEM describe other characters in significantly non-sexual or non-personally attracted ways, like "Acey supposes BigStrongGuy or CurvySexyGirl is nice-looking enough, and they suppose others might find him/her attractive" then proceeds to not personally find him/her attractive ever

>Someone cracks a casual one-off banter joke about Acey being prude and they have to explain no, a lack of interest doesn't mean they're judging anyone else / no, they're just more interested in other things. End scene, move on without lecture

>Some plot happens in which characters deepest desires are revealed and some want love and romance and passion and Acey wants a small house and a cat and a forever-roommate maybe (or to BE THE GREATEST AT X EVER NO ROOM FOR ANYTHING ELSE; see: like half the shounen manga heroes out there)

If you're consistent about it, people will draw their own conclusions from the giant piles of hints you're leaving, even if they're individually small!

It honestly does come up a lot in real life, especially when making smalltalk about partners or children or marriage - people just tend to not notice because most of us have learned not to say "WELL YOU SEE THE THING IS..." and just say "haha, well not yet!"

Edited 2018-08-18 03:17 (UTC)

Different anon but adding to this, I don't mind asexual characters any more than straight characters or gay characters. It's always a 'it depends' sort of thing. Stories where it's like BOB IS ACE AND LOVES JOHN, BUT JOHN REALLY WANTS TO SLEEP WITH HIM, OH NO DRAMA are just gross and immediately offputting to me, personally (not saying they can't be done well! I just don't enjoy them).

But as a... I GUESS, Real Life Asexual person it comes up a hell of a lot. I mean I've had the Very Special Episode thing irl (it was as awkward as it sounds) but in a lot of other contexts, here are more casual examples:

- Acey is taking leave from work to spend a week with their partner in a cabin! It's gonna be great! They let their colleagues know! Who are all like, WOO GO GET SOME ACTION to which Acey just kind of laughs very awkwardly

- Acey is at family reunion and people are like so when are u having kids have you not found anyone YET for years. It's awkward. Eventually Acey turns up with a partner! Everyone asks them about kids yet again. No. They are not sexing. There will not be children. (Alternatively: Acey mentions that they've been thinking about adoption. The family is CONFUSED.)

TBH, 'LAUGHS AWKWARDLY' or 'NOD AND SMILE' is the standard ace reaction to lots of things. And those are hypothetical but based on real life stuff. Here is another horrible example I have had that actually DID happen:

- Teenage Acey is in a car with their dad. Their dad explains to Acey that it's OKAY to not have sex in a relationship and they don't have to feel pressured to have sex or look for it. Acey's dad didn't even have sex with Acey's mom until they wanted a child!

'Wait a sec but you married at... in your 20s didn't you, and you had me at like 36'
'Well yes, that's totally normal, lots of people are like that, your mom is like that in not being interested in sex! Very common'
'Dad no sex for 10 years with the woman you married is RESPECTABLE but it is definitely not COMMON uh'

Dialogue dramatised for effect but that was the general gist of it. Turns out Acey's MOM is also asexual, just from an era when 'being asexual' was not a thing. Welp.

- Similarly along those lines - an older couple in a story who have popped out One (1) child according to social obligation! They seem to all accounts to live a generally okay life. They don't sleep in the same bedroom, they don't kiss, they haven't had sex in like 20 years, they seem entirely okay and comfortable with this dynamic. They also have no idea what 'asexual' means. It happens.

- MORE ON OLDER ACES and based on irl experience, imagine NotAcey with an incredibly prudish parent. Being attracted to sex is clearly a weakness! Bad! Wrong! It should be EASY to abstain from that kind of thing and anyone who does clearly has something wrong with them, NotAcey's parent has NEVER had interest in any of that and everyone else should be like them... because when you don't know you're a sex repulsed asexual it's very easy to be very holier than thou about this kind of thing.

Also it should be obvious by now but asexual people aren't all like, teens or young. And how they come off or whether they even REALISE they're asexual can really vary based on social setting. Like:

- Pure! Happy! Hopeless romantic girl! Seen as Proper and Pious according to her conservative religious family. Likes stories of romances but skips past the sex scenes because ew;;. Never realises she's asexual. The right man???? will come one day, surely? It's perfectly fine in her teens, and only starts getting... a little... strange when she's in her 20s and still hasn't developed any interest in anyone.

Basically just don't discount the fact that lots of asexual people are invisible even to themselves. So yeah when it comes to asexual people in stories I would just say it's a bit IT DEPENDS since there's no one type or anything like that.

Wow, all of that is very interesting.

Hypothetical situation: Character A is asexual but doesn't know it/doesn't realize there's a word for it, happens to find a partner like them that also is not interested in sex. Everyone that knows them assumes they are having sex but they don't particularly care and just ignore people's comments and go about their life. Is this acceptable or offensive?

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 04:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 05:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 10:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 10:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 11:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

case - 2018-08-18 14:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-19 03:01 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-19 10:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-19 11:59 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 11:30 (UTC) - Expand

I don't think you have to avoid bringing it up entirely to the point where readers wouldn't even notice. Two other characters could be getting involved, and you could have the asexual person reflect on how that kind of thing just isn't for them without even mentioning the word "asexual". The tone could be wistful or blithe or matter-of-fact, depending on the character. To be honest I find may aspects of asexuality fascinating so such rumination would add to the fabric of the narrative.

Yeah, I just find it really interesting for some reason too. From this thread I'm learning the best way would probably just be to not even use the word at all and reveal it in more subtle ways. For some reason I thought at first it needed to be more explict but I don't know why I thought that and it seems like it would be better not to be. I actually read a book once where a character was apparently meant to be asexual but they never used the word, just said they weren't interested, and when another character was hitting on them, they were basically like "sorry, but this isn't my thing" and that was that. It sounds like that's probably better than a character declaring they're asexual and explaining what it means.

I mean.

It appeals to this specific audience more, I wouldn't necessarily equate that with being better across the board.

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 05:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: How would you feel about asexual characters in a story/book?

(Anonymous) - 2018-08-18 05:22 (UTC) - Expand

If it’s set in the last few years in an area/milieu and with characters that are likely to know what asexual means, go for it. If the context for finding out is the character getting hit on and turning someone down with “no thanks, I’m asexual,” and you want to drop an explanation, maybe have the character who was turned down look confusec and have someone else say “don’t feel bad, they’re not into sex with anyone, it’s not just you,” or similar.

If you’re setting it in a fishing village on the coast of Cornwall in 1850 or something, you’ve got a lot of research on your hands and it’d probably be better to have any asexual characters be bachelors/spinsters unless you’re going for sexuality centered angst or drama.

Yes, I think it definitely depends on the setting. Someone in present day who's heavily involved in LGBT+ circles I feel would be more likely to know what it means, outside of that, probably not so much.

It's fine as long as it doesn't come off as preachy, like you say. Or if the character doesn't feel the need to mention it every 30 seconds.

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