fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4252 ]

[ SECRET POST #4252 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4252 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Uh.
If you think Steve Rogers throwing his shield full-tilt into someone doesn't kill them, you're confused.

They all have blood on their hands. Bucky, at least, was forced via torture and brainwashing and violent, unending 'conditioning' to do what he did.

If you think Steve Rogers throwing his shield full-tilt into someone doesn't kill them, you're confused.

Is this argument based on something presented in the actual movies / comics, or based on what would happen in real life

Based on the fact that he can lift a motorcycle with three women on it? He's throwing that shield with a *lot* of force behind it. That cracks into someone's head, or ribs, or gut - they're pretty much dead, especially the soldiers in WWII who probably had zero access to adequate medical care.

So real-life. Got it.

I completely accept that, by the laws of physics in real life, it would easily and unquestionably kill a human being.

But it's not in real life, and I think that - based on the tone of the depiction of the character in the movie, and the history of the character's depiction in comics, and superhero genre conventions - we are absolutely not supposed to believe or assume that he's killing people every time he throws his shield at someone. Even though it's not realistic.

I think he most certainly did in the war, and most likely did on the Lumerian Star (sp?) ship, and when they were chasing down Crossbones.... I think that when he's faced with people who are going to kill him, he will kill back. He's a soldier, he's not a goody-goody. Of *course* it would be better if they were arrested or whatever,but - that's not realistic, either, in situations that a superhero would get into, when faced with other super-human type people.

IMO.

I agree that Steve has probably killed people. But usually we draw a moral and legal distinction between killing people as a soldier in war, and murdering them privately or assassinating them the way that Bucky did (when he was brainwashed). There's all kinds of moral lines and hedges that we draw like this - we think that there's a moral difference between causing people to die versus directly murdering them, things like that.

I don't think that he's killing people every time he throws his shield, or in the course of his work as a superhero. I mean, you're correct that it's not realistic that superheroes wouldn't kill people - but it's famously a conceit of the modern superhero genre that they don't. It's widely pointed out and acknowledged as something that's true even though it's unrealistic. And, again, the depiction of the character and his actions in the films backs this up.

*shrug*
Agree to disagree.

The problem isn't that he killed people.

It's that he did and Steve acts like he's this perfect person who's infallible with how the canon treats their relationship.

.......okay. I don't see how you're getting 'infallible'. He treats Bucky like someone he thought was dead but was, instead, tortured and brainwashed, and is now trying to do better.

He of course trusts the friend who, to him, was only dead and gone for a few years, not 70 years, and he rightly believes that someone shouldn't be punished for doing things when there were not in their right mind.

I mean - he put Bucky's arm in a friggin' vice so he could be sure he woudln't attack if he woke up still 'triggered'. He surrendered to the authorities and let his best friend be locked away in that gruesome little glass cage because he believed that justice would recognize what Bucky had gone through and that he would be exonerated.

I mean, you do you, but...really really really disagree.

This so much. And he was proven wrong about justice when almost everyone, including, somehow, many of his friends, failed to see that Bucky was brainwashed and not remotely responsible.

Right? I'm just...baffled by the vehemence of the Anon.

And frankly - i thought how Tony Stark was written in CW was ridiculous, over the top, and utterly out of character.

He doesn't treat Bucky as infallible. He's just the only one who seems to realize that brainwashing means that Bucky is not remotely, at all responsible for anything he was forced to do.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4252 ]

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