fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #589 ]

[ SECRET POST #589 ]

⌈ Secret Post #589 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

__________________________________________________

102.

__________________________________________________

103.

__________________________________________________

104.

__________________________________________________

105.

__________________________________________________

106. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

107.

__________________________________________________

108.

__________________________________________________

109.

__________________________________________________

110. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

111.

__________________________________________________

112. [not fandom]

__________________________________________________

113.

__________________________________________________

114.

__________________________________________________

115.

__________________________________________________

116.

__________________________________________________

117.

__________________________________________________

118.

__________________________________________________

119.

__________________________________________________

120.

__________________________________________________

121.

__________________________________________________

122.

__________________________________________________

123.

__________________________________________________

124.

__________________________________________________

125.

__________________________________________________

126.

__________________________________________________

127.

__________________________________________________

128.

__________________________________________________

129.

__________________________________________________

130.

__________________________________________________

131.

__________________________________________________

132.

__________________________________________________

133.

__________________________________________________

134.

__________________________________________________

135.

__________________________________________________

136.

__________________________________________________

137.

__________________________________________________

138.

__________________________________________________

139.

__________________________________________________

140.

__________________________________________________

141.

__________________________________________________

142.

__________________________________________________

143.

__________________________________________________

144.

__________________________________________________

145.

__________________________________________________

146.

__________________________________________________

147.

__________________________________________________

148.

__________________________________________________

149.

__________________________________________________

150.

__________________________________________________

151.

__________________________________________________

152.

__________________________________________________

153.

__________________________________________________

154.

__________________________________________________

155.

__________________________________________________

156.

__________________________________________________

157.

__________________________________________________

158.

__________________________________________________

159.

__________________________________________________

160.

__________________________________________________

161.

__________________________________________________

162.

__________________________________________________

163.

__________________________________________________

164.

__________________________________________________

165.

__________________________________________________

166.

__________________________________________________

167.

__________________________________________________

168.

__________________________________________________

169.

__________________________________________________

170.

__________________________________________________

171.

__________________________________________________

172.

__________________________________________________

173.

__________________________________________________

174.

__________________________________________________

175.

__________________________________________________

176.

__________________________________________________

177.

__________________________________________________

178.

__________________________________________________

179.

__________________________________________________

180.

__________________________________________________

181.

__________________________________________________

182.

__________________________________________________

183.

__________________________________________________

184.

__________________________________________________

185.

__________________________________________________

186.

__________________________________________________

187.

__________________________________________________

188.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 25 pages, 619 secrets from Secret Submission Post #085.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

101. I respectfully disagree. For one thing, I wouldn't call Butler's voice anywhere near appropriate. The whole point of Erik's voice is to counteract his physical presence. It shouldn't be...rock-ish. It should sound much purer. His demeanor seemed completely off to me, too--there IS something fragile about Erik, physically and mentally, and Butler seemed a little too confident. That's just my opinion.

126. That's such a shame! I really, really hope you're not just using Anne Rice, JK Rowling, and (especially) Stephenie Meyer as your idea of women writers. Think of Margaret Atwood or A.S. Byatt.

Strongly agree, on both.

Don't forget Harper Lee.

To Kill a Mocking Bird is an amazing book.

Yes, if you weren't made to read it in high school... though I do admit Atticus is awesome.

Those two are my favorites! A.S. Byatt can send me into a literary orgasm: "Possession" alone is a work of genius.

Also, Pat Barker, Joan Aiken, Daphne du Maurier, Dorothy Allison, Louise Erdrich, Joanne Harris, Jane Yolen, etc. etc. etc.

And Susanna Clarke! Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell is the best fantasy novel of at least the last 10 years.

I loved that book! Though I hesitate to recommend it to people since it's 1000 pages (paperback ftw) and people tend to have short attention spans.

I wonder how the OP would react to this book, because it reads like it's written by a man, doesn't it? Because of the sexist overtones due to the period writing...

It does kind of feel like that, yeah. But I was glad that she was willing to affect even the sexist voice to get the style of the period down. I mean, certainly there are good female writers who write in that period and manage to not be sexist while also not being anachronistically feminist (like Naomi Novik), but I really like the way Clarke wrote not just about that period, but actually in that period. Also, "The Ladies of Grace Adieu" has really awesome female characters and sort of hints that once magic becomes more widespread in that world, they'll become more socially powerful as well.

And Alice Hoffman!

I love that this has become a lovefest for female authors.

I'm gonna throw in Angela Carter and Sarah Waters. And for something more old-school: Jane Austen, the Brontes, Elizabeth Gaskell, George Eliot, etc.

In a fantasy/SF vein: Ursula K. LeGuin, Octavia Butler, Madeleine L'Engle, Susan Cooper, Evangeline Walton, Emma Bull, Pamela Dean, Connie Willis, Ellen Kushner, Anne McCaffrey, Lois McMaster Bujold, C.J. Cherryh, Jacqueline Carey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Mercedes Lackey, Naomi Novik, Jane Yolen, Tamora Pierce, Tanith Lee, Patricia McKillip, Andre Norton...et frakkin' cetera. I mean, I like some of these writers a lot better than others, but if you can't find something you love somewhere in the works of any of them, you've got ISSUES.

Feel free to disagree, I'm not an elitist. I just posted my opinion on it all like everyone else here does. I just feel like the Phantom should exude a sort of power despite his physical appearance and the strength Butler put into the role worked for me as a result. I felt that his having a deeper voice contributed as well. Michael Crawford, while he does have a beautiful voice, just seems so...soft in comparison. I'm not intimidated by him as Leroux implies one should be.

I agree on there being a fragile aspect to Erik's character, but I feel like it really shouldn't be seen until the viewer realizes that his cockiness and strength are a facade.

Didn't mean to imply that Butler was the perfect Phantom, but I'm just tired of seeing him bashed when I don't feel that he performed badly.

Gonna jump right on in here (respectfully!):

Before the movie ever seemed to be a possibility (15 years in the making much?), this same debate was had about Colm Wilkson (Canadian cast recording) and Michael Crawford. Mostly, those who heard CW first that MC was waaaaay too soft. I happend to really enjoy Crawford's voice, and do find it powerful, angry and threatening when it suits, but I really dig Colm's voice too. And Brad Little. John Own Jones is probably my favorite. And I don't strictly adhere to any interpretation of POTO (yes, even the original) but I'd say Kay's is as close to perfection as I can wrap my mind around. But enough about me.

I will disagree about Gerard Butler on one basic principle: Erik's voice is to be likened to an angel--he is not a rock star. His voice is so other-worldly that it is likened to the divine. To me this excludes the "raw" aspect that the 2004 movie powers-that-be kept trying to shove down our throats. I think it a mistake to make the movie-phantom physically attractive through appearance rather than voice. I guess I can understand why someone would embrace this interpretation of the character, but I do think it greatly contradicts Lereoux's text.

I guess that in some ways, I'm still new to the fandom that is POTO. I generally stuck to the books and the newer movie because it introduced me to it in the first place. When I started listening to the OBC, I was a little surprised at how different it was from my first view of it all.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of experience with the other singers throughout the years, so I feel like I'm missing out in that respect, with so little to go by. It wasn't my intention to imply that Butler and Rossum were perfect in the roles, but that there were things they brought to each character that I felt sufficient. Do you know where I could find examples of the other singers or should I just hit up youtube?

I understand your argument about Butler's portrayal as not being otherworldly, but I really liked the emotion he brought to his interpretation and the enthusiasm he expressed about it all. I didn't care for him being physically attractive, though, so I agree with you on that point.

Hey, I love newbies--the more the merrier, right?

I discovered POTO almost ten years ago and I was very much a lurker. For one, I didn't discover livejournal until six years later, so I was visiting personal webpages. I felt by far the most young and inexperienced, having only seen the show once and with no job or car to rectify this situation. But I devoured everything I could that summer. Since the release of the movie, the fandom and fannish materials have greatly altered. I feel unfamiliar with the current fandom and, honestly, I'm sated by all the material prior to the movie. I'm not certain if that makes me an elitist, but I figure that since I want and try to like the movie (but ultimately just don't) that I'm probably a good phan. :)

I can't imagine how it would be if the movie were my first introduction, but what a shock to go back to the original material! I actually agree with you about Butler--he gave it his all--so I don't really hold anything against him. I think he was miscast solely on voice (had he been styled differently, I don't his sex appeal wouuld have irked me as much). His acting was fine (even if, ultimately, not Erik to me). I think all the blame does truly lie with ALW and JS.

If you have not read Susan Kay's Phantom, well, run don't walk to amazon. You are actually quite lucky that it's now back in print (for about 25 bucks). I bought it in the late 90s for about six bucks, and maybe six months to a year later the thing was out of print until just this past year. It was not unheard of for fans to steal library copies and pay as much as a hundred bucks for a paperback copy on ebay. Yes it's that good (but still, of course, with its flaws).

Other movie versions I would recommend are Lon Chaney's, the 1991 tv miniseries (although I understand this is now hard to find), and--believe it or not--the 1989 version starring the guy who plays Freddy Kruger. Very strong--and different--interpretation of the phantom. Beautiful soundtrack. My favorite is probably the tv miniseries; it's based off of Yestin and Kolpit's musical, but is not a musical itself.

As for recordings, I recommend the non-ALW ones as well. Ken Hill's is truly the original, and Yestin and Kolpit were in a race to get theirs done before ALW (they lost), but I do believe that they started theirs first. I think it's just as good, maybe even better in a more traditional musical sense. Plus, Gaston from Beauty and the Beast plays Erik's voice!!!

As for ALW Phantoms, I'm gonna have to go with youtube. Ah, glorious youtube. Mp3 bootlegs are extremely hard to find, and before youtube I hadn't heard any other phantoms other than the ones I'd seen and the Canadian and London cast. So, for youtube I recommend: John Owen Jones, Anthony Warlow (check out him in Jekyll & Hyde concept recording as well), Franc D'Ambrosio, Brad Little and loads more than I cannot remember. Once you get started, you'll find tons of great recs in the linked side toolbar.

As for cast recordings proper, I'd be more than happy to share mine with you (both non-ALW versions and a few different ALW ones). Unfortunately I've lost all my music on my computer (else I'd link them now), but if you comment in my joural reminding me, I'll upload what cds I have.

Er, sorry for the mouthful. Once someone gets me started on POTO...

The Theatreworks album is worth having, too, if only for "Find Me".

Yes! I thought I was the only one who owned and liked that album!

Am I still a newbie if I've been into it for about four years now? I guess I still am in regard to the singing renditions, but not to the books. I'm familiar with Susan Kay's Phantom and I loved it. Now that I know I won't have to sell my firstborn for a copy, I'll definitely look into purchasing one. If only Angel of the Opera would go down in price as well...

It was a bit of a shock to listen to the OBC after seeing the movie because I was used to Butler's deeper voice and Rossum's younger one. That's probably why it took a bit of time for Michael Crawford's voice to grow on me, for one. And while I really do like Sarah Brightman's other works, I still have trouble seeing her as Christine.

I have seen Lon Chaney's interpretation of the Phantom, although I should probably watch it again because it was my first silent movie and when I ordered it from the library, I was under the impression that I was getting the 2004 version (sneaky library!) and was only about 15 at the time. As embarrassed as I am to say it, I couldn't help but giggle a few times. Now that I'm older and wiser, I'd probably appreciate it a little more. Not sure if I'll be able to get my hands on the tv interpretations, though.

As for the 1989 version, I tried watching it a year or so ago, but I'm not much for gore. I might give it another shot a little later. That is the gory one, right? And after Sweeney Todd, I don't want to see anything with blood in it for awhile. Beautiful music, but not a good first full gore watching... If that makes any sense.

I'll definitely look into the other recordings. Maybe I can find them on youtube as well or elsewhere, if I'm lucky. xD Glad to see Gaston found another hopeless love to pursue! D: I'm going to have to make a list of all of these! And I'll be sure to bug you about uploads!

Don't feel bad about mouthfuls. I'm a rambler by nature, myself.

I do agree that there should be a sense of power and control that's gradually stripped away--I guess my problem is that Butler didn't really do that for me. To me, he seemed petulant instead of powerful, cocky instead of in control. And I think part of my problem is that he was too young--not just the actor, but the character. (I agree that a lot of it is definitely the fault of the director rather than the actor.) I actually think the best example of an Erik who exudes both power and fragility just might be Lon Chaney. As for Butler's voice, I just...can't like it. His voice isn't even powerful to me. I think I cringed a couple of times when I first saw the movie.

Different strokes for different folks and all that. I do hope I'm not coming off as "elitist" or anything--it's refreshing to have an intelligent discussion about Phantom. :)

I always viewed Erik as somewhat cocky and petulant, while still being powerful and in control. I guess by saying that, I'm referring to the part in the novel when he nearly drowns Nadir when he tries to make it across the lake and how proud he seems to be of himself afterward. I feel like there's an aspect to Erik's personality that is ultimately childlike, what with his inexperience, his self-proclaimed genius, and the strong emotions he portrays throughout the novel, if that makes any sense. Although I don't feel like Butler really grasped this in his performance.

Of course, the only aspect of the story that seemed to be taken into consideration for the movie was the romantic aspect of the book. I feel like the OB production was a little closer in regard to plot.

I really need to rewatch Lon Chaney's performance. I think when I saw it, it was the first time I'd ever watched a silent movie, so I wasn't able to appreciate it as I might have been. I was suffering from retro-shock. XD Is there a particular singer that you prefer, though?

Agreed on the different strokes part! I was hoping to encourage intelligent discussion when I posted in the first place rather than flames. I just saw so many people bashing the 2004 for the same all-encompassing reasons without putting some meat into what they said and I was frustrated because I liked it. That and I love a good debate...

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #589 ]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

126

126

Re: 126

Re: 126

no subject

no subject

More, more, more

101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP

Re: 101 OP