[ SECRET POST #4308 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4308 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.
[Ian and Mickey from Shameless (US)]


__________________________________________________


03.
[Fandom Secrets]


__________________________________________________



04.
[severus snape x ron weasley]


__________________________________________________



05.
[Keira Knightley]


__________________________________________________



06.
[Return of the Obra Dinn]


__________________________________________________



07.
[Neil Gaiman, Good Omens]










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 44 secrets from Secret Submission Post #617.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

And she was a young woman in medieval France where a young woman couldn't just leave without being married unless she wanted to be a whore. I know you're an abuse victim, just like me, so honestly I thought you'd know better than the whole, "Well, she should have just LEFT." And go fucking where?

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't realize that being a sex worker was an option for a character in a G-rated Disney.

[(Anonymous)]

No, but if Philstar is going to try to make this point, I'm going to go along with it when it's patently ridiculous and I really don't like doing the, "Okay, so why haven't you left YOUR abusive home?" game because I've been on the receiving end of it.

[(Anonymous)]

"This character was portrayed as a passive object and the movie sends a bad message about how to follow your dreams" is not the same as "ughhhhh why didn't this character just leave their abusive home!?!?" and it's manipulative nonsense to assert that it is.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just calling it as I see it, and it offends me as someone who had to sit and wait to be rescued because she had nowhere to go (and there was no physical abuse so I couldn't get help) that just "sitting and waiting" is what specifically Philstar has a problem with. So shove off.

[(Anonymous)]

You're not the only one in the conversation who comes from a background of abuse.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah but I'm not going, "OMG THIS IS SUCH AN AWFUL PORTRAYAL WHY DIDN'T SHE JUST LEAVE WHY DID SHE JUST WAIT AROOOOUUUUND" am I?

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody else is either

[(Anonymous)]

She also has a crappy homelife and crappy parents, so... irony. And maybe a degree of self loathing and self blame that's coloring her viewpoint here.

[(Anonymous)]

Foh

[philstar22]

Not saying she should have, realistically. I just think Cinderella isn't a movie I would show to kids without a discussion because the message seems to me to be just dream and wait and good things will happen. And I personally think that's not a message I'd just give to kids without talking about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Haha, that, too. Like... run away to explore the rich options a young woman with no money or protection from her family has? That's not a tempting prospect NOW, when we have social welfare programs and crap.

[(Anonymous)]

Fairy tales ain't historically realistic and are more about contemporary issues and concerns than the morality of medieval France

Come the fuck on

[(Anonymous)]

Sort of. Disney movies of that era aren't as heavy on social messages, though. They were closer to being a slightly sanitized retelling of a fairy tale, and the sanitization process tended to downplay the heavier handed moral messages.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's still a reflection of the desires and mores of society as they were at that time. What "sanitizing" means, what a proper fairy tale should look like and what themes it should emphasize - that's the product of a contemporary moral judgment. It's not a concern with realism or accuracy or anything of that sort.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. I think the anon you were originally responding to (not me) is exaggerating someone by bringing medieval France into it, but they're likely reacting to the fact that philstar is approaching the issue from a contemporary viewpoint (i.e. questioning why Cinderella isn't more proactive) when the movie was made in the 1950s, based on a much older fairy tale. So philstar is treating it like it's a realistic, contemporary scenario, and others are pointing out why that doesn't really work.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure that I really understand what you mean. Certainly, Philstar is judgjng the movie from a modern point of view. But that's a totally valid frame of judgment, and a valid way of understanding the movie's message. The historical explanation of the roots of the movie in the 1950s, and the older fairy tales that it's drawing on, are extremely important for understanding why the movie is the way it is, but it doesn't follow that you have to like or approve of the message, or show it to children. You can understand why Cinderella isn't more proactive, and still want her to be. The historical stuff - it's an explanation, but it's not a justification, necessarily.

[(Anonymous)]

Never mind that plenty of old fairy tales and films from the 50s portray women behaving far more proactively than Cinderella did. Old timey sexism explains a lot of problems but it isn't the perfect excuse some people use it as.

[(Anonymous)]

CINDERELLA ISN'T MEDIEVAL YOU IGNORANT PILL BOTTLE, THOSE BUSTLE DRESSES ARE OBVIOUSLY EARLY 19th CENTURY AT THE MOST

ok carry on

[(Anonymous)]

da

The original story is from the early 17th century.

[(Anonymous)]

that's ALSO not medieval, it's early modern/high renaissance

and the discussion is specifically about the movie, so I stand by my fashion based objection

[(Anonymous)]

My point was that anon was closer to the correct time period than you are, but you do you.

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

There are two different things here: the animated movie, and the fairy tale.

If we're talking about the animated movie, then the date of the original fairy tale has nothing to do with it, and it's not medieval at all. If we're talking about the fairy tale, then anon wasn't correct when they said it was medieval, it's at least a century after the end of the Middle Ages (obviously, no one actually agrees on when the Middle Ages ended, but sometime around 1500-ish seems to be the general mark).

Re: NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

Not exactly. There are a lot of versions of Cinderella throughout history (one of the oldest is chinese I believe). Many much much much older than the more well-known French versions. But I think that what matter is not when the story was writting but when it is supposed to take place. Meaning that the tale of Cinderella potrayed in the Disney movie takes place at an ambiguous era of time that could or couldn't be from a time where it was indeed difficult for a non-married woman to be independent. However, I also think that the idea that the only other option was for her to become a fille-de-joie is inaccurate. Personnaly,I like Cinderella, I think she was brave and kind. And she wasn't a pushover either, she stood up to Lucifer or instance.