[ SECRET POST #4368 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4368 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

(Woops, sorry, posted but forgot to unlock it.)

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 20 secrets from Secret Submission Post #625.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/hrkDhRQ.png

spoiler!

[(Anonymous)]

He was a shit dad buuuuuut yellow eye dude was always coming for Sam anyway. His terrible parenting is the only reason they're both alive-ish.

Re: spoiler!

[(Anonymous)]

He could have been a great dad and still taught them. He was just a shit person and didn't.

[philstar22]

Honestly, I think the show went to far with making him really terrible in such a way that I don't buy the boys loving him that much or Dean being that much of a daddy's boy. The first few seasons, he was not a great dad, but he was trying. Later on he was straight up terrible and outright, obviously abusive. It didn't work for me.

[(Anonymous)]

Damn, I only watched the first five seasons, but I thought the dad died in like... season 1.

[philstar22]

He did. And actually, the way they portrayed him changed after he died. When we saw him alive, he was not a great dad. Even abusive in a verbal way. But there was absolutely always a heart of him wanting to do the right thing, of him trying to protect his kids and just not knowing the right way to do it. Later on, he was just a hardnose who cared more about the hunt than his kids and was physically as well as verbally abusive. Actually, I'm surprised the actor is coming back because he himself has said he was uncomfortable with some of the later portrayals of John.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, so he's still dead, he's not resurrected or something like the brothers constantly are. Lol good to know.

[esteefee]

Yeah. The final scene in the hospital room, where Dean is utterly disbelieving John could say something even remotely kind to him, is telltale of what an abuser John was. But I do understand why Dean would love him. Children love their parents regardless of how awful they are.

[philstar22]

John was an abuser. I'm not arguing with that. For me, the difference is that in the earlier seasons he was an abuser who was trying to do the right thing, trying to protect his kids, and actually cared about Sam and Dean. Later seasons make it seem like he didn't even care about Sam and Dean at all. That's what I don't like.

[(Anonymous)]

He cared about them in the bare minimum way he could.

[philstar22]

And that's where I think that's the story later seasons gave, but I think the first few seasons showed us a John who genuinely, deeply loves his kids but was a shit father who didn't know how to be a parent and was so wounded from losing Mary and from the fact that he knew Yellow Eyes was after Sam that he did everything wrong. But the love was there, and I think later seasons forgot that or tried to change that.

[esteefee]

I wasn't arguing your point?

[(Anonymous)]

You don't think children can love and idolize their abusers? Especially ones that are isolated and have no support system? Okay.

[philstar22]

Of course they can and often do. Sam and Dean, though, as they are characterized on the show, don't strike me as ones who would.

[(Anonymous)]

How so? They will literally damn the world for family.

[philstar22]

Yes. And my impression is that from characters like them, that kind of loyalty is earned. It fits with season 1-2 John who was abusive, but who loved them and only wanted to keep them safe. It doesn't fit with the later John who didn't really seem to care about them much at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Season 1 John was such an asshole, he didn't go check on his dying son. He was such an asshole dean realized he was possessed because he was being nice. But I guess he didn't actively slap them around, so good for him.

[philstar22]

I'm not saying he was a good father. I'm not saying he wasn't abusive, because he was. I'm saying he loved them and didn't know how to show it. I'm saying he was terrified for them and wanted to protect them (and in particular Sam since he knew Yellow Eyes was after him) and just didn't not know how to do things right. I'm just saying the love was there in the earlier seasons and that is the thing they've changed.

[(Anonymous)]

How did they change it in later seasons? From what I saw he has always been the same level of asshole who neglects his sons except for when he is training than like soldiers.

[philstar22]

They made it seem as if he only cared about the hunt and didn't care about his sons at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Like the kind of father who would force his children to live out of motels? Or make a child take care of his little brother with no idea if dad will be coming home? Or the kind who would take his kids on a hunt for a monster who kills kids, and then blame a child for not protecting his little brother from that monster? Sounds like someone who barely cares about his kids.

[(Anonymous)]

They made it seem as if he only cared about the hunt and didn't care about his sons at all.

Yeah, as someone who's only seen the first four seasons, this wasn't the impression of him I got at all. So I'm inclined to agree with you about the show changing its portrayal of him over time. He definitely didn't seem like a great dad in the early seasons, but it did seem like a lot of the things he did he did out of a somewhat obsessive and perhaps misguided desire to protect his kids.

I mean, there's definitely a validity in Sam and Dean going, "Sometimes it felt like hunting demons had become such a part of Dad's identity that he was essentially doing it because it was what he did, regardless of all the reasons he gave for why he had to Hunt." That kind of rethinking of the past by adult Sam and Dean would be absolutely valid, and there may well be some truth in it. But going off of the first few seasons, it definitely never seemed that his primary reason for Hunting was, like, personal fulfillment or whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

It's been a while since I've watched SPN, but when was John abusive? I figured he was at worst neglectful and the kind of parent that wants their kids to live his dreams -- leaving them alone for a hunt, entrusting complete responsibility to his eldest, the pressure to carry on with the family business. WHICH was why Dean was always about being just like him, or wanting to be valued by him, since he was never around and likely never said I live you very much. But I don't recall other instances where he was shirty. I just thought he was obsessed with avenging his wife. And went overboard.

Do you have particular instances? Not doubting you, just trying to see maybe I blanked on it!

[(Anonymous)]

Why not both? Didn't Dean kinda do that with Mary when he said he both hated and loved her?

[(Anonymous)]

It's going to be bizarre if it's in present-day and Mary's all, "LOL I'm boning alt-universe Bobby now."

I kind of don't want it to be present-day, though. Maybe he's in heaven and gets out or something.