fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4374 ]

[ SECRET POST #4374 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4374 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

[Disney/Doctor Who crossover]

__________________________________________________

03.

[Avatar: The Last Airbender]

__________________________________________________

04.

(Markiplier and his friend Wade)

__________________________________________________

05.

[Dumplin' on Netflix]

__________________________________________________

06.

[Daredevil]

__________________________________________________

07.

[Criminal Minds S03E13 "Limelight"]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 27 secrets from Secret Submission Post #626.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I run in feminist circles and this is like the first time this year I've seen that argument entertained seriously.

What? You have not see the idea that male violence is a unique and socialised phenomenon, and it comes from men enforcing social norms of oppression and violence to be upheld by other men?

I mean, I too have some feminist friends (Typically they tend to be the type of feminist who, if they believe this is a thing will hold the opinion that this socialisation can be broken by speaking with an educating men), and I have seen that regularly. I have also seen in in various feminist articles and papers.

Hell, google "Toxic masculinity" which, Yes, I know was not traditional the idea that men harm women by their male socialisation, but has broadly become a buzzword for that idea.

I mean, if you're not seeing it regularly, either you're not looking too deep into it, or your feminist circles are not that broad, or you are not taking it seriously when it is discussed, or you don't consider the feminist who espouse it as "Real" feminists. Like How TERF's are not really real feminists.

But yeah, It's a pretty popular concept in feminism these days.

You're making a massive leap from the first paragraph, which is a reasonable statement about the realities of gendered violence, to a fringe determinist position, to attributing that fringe position to feminism in general.

So who should I consider more credible here? Dozens of articles describing consent culture as something that is entirely possible for men, and some are already doing it. (By coincidence, writing this in a car listening to Dirty Computer, an critically acclaimed album discussing this.) Or f!s worst troll? Do I continue to engage in the discussion of how men are examining and changing toxic masculinity in our lives or your persecution fantasy?

Did I say feminism in general?

I said common in feminism, which is certainly seems to be, and that this idea is uniquly found in feminism.

But you are calling me this comms worst troll, which tells me that you... hell you don't care about all the troll giants upon who's shoulders I stand, and only really care about beating your opponent, and not engaging honestly to begin with.

Also your incorrect (but commonly misused) use of toxic masculinity tells me I got an ideologue on my hands, so really is there any point in me trying to convince you you're wrong?

Just Saturday I saw a piece about how it's possible to have parties including the opportunity for hookups while respecting consent, by borrowing norms and practices from queer night clubs.

And educate me, in what way an I using "toxic masculinity," a term that originated in discussion of behaviors that contribute to increased male mortality such as lack of independent social networks, reluctance to seek preventive and early health care, and yes, interpersonal violence, incorrectly? Am I really am ideologue for not talking about how I have a primary physician, do the early eating tests, and cultivate friendships?

Or is it just that I don't find your tired anti-feminism (the same BS I here out of 30 years ago) credible.

Yeah, toxic masculinity is traditionally those things.

It not, as the current topic is about, how "Male violence is everywhere and unique and different from women. Men are the violent ones and if they went away women would be safe to walk the street at night"

I tell you to look up toxic masculinity as an example of how that is the current narrative, and you come back with "Yeah, that's toxic masculinity, we're trying to change that" (paraphrased of course") then yeah, I think you're broadening the term far beyond those points you listed there and have moved from "Toxic Masculinity is somthing men do to themselves" and into "Toxic masculinty is what men do to women" which is the current feminist ideologue thinking of the term.

But yeah, I think this disingenuous bullshit you're pulling here is just confirming my gut instincts that there's no point trying to engage someone who is so engaged in the narrative that anyone who has a problem with the utter bullshit parts of feminism is a troll.

Oi, again with you and this "narrative," which is very much in "citation needed" territory, followed by bitching that anyone who is reasonably skeptical of your claim that feminists believe men can't change are ideologues.

It not, as the current topic is about, how "Male violence is everywhere and unique and different from women. Men are the violent ones and if they went away women would be safe to walk the street at night"

In the world as it exists right now, men are largely the ones that instigate violence against women as a result of the social decisions we make about how we socialize and educate men. That set of social attitudes about masculinity is often called "toxic masculinity". One way to illustrate the impact of these behaviors is to imagine a hypothetical world with no men - the difference between how women would live in that world, and how they live in this world, illustrates the size and scale of the problem.

If we want to make the world better, and reduce that violence, the best way to do so is to socialize men better so that they don't do these behaviors. This will reduce violence against women, and also probably make men happier and healthier and make the world a better place. And this is one of the main political objectives of feminism.

Correction, an I really am ideologue for taking about how I take care of my own health?

We are not talking about your health. or My health. Were we talking about that, that would be the picture perfect example of a topic in which the term toxic masculinity belongs. Talking about Toxic masculinity as a means to address why women would be free of violence if men disappeared...

Yeah, no, that's bullshit ideology.

We're talking about what feminism says about toxic masculinity, playing no true Scot when you have neither credibility nor sources isn't going to work.

I see little point in discussing a fringe position as mainstream.

I mean... You want me to cite the feminist zeitgeist? I ... Nibba, just google the words "Toxic Masculinity" read the first... 10 articles and put them into categories of "This article talks about toxic masculinity as what men do to themselves" vs "This article talks about toxic masculinity as what men do to Women"

Today it's an even split among "toxic masculinity hurts men," "toxic masculinity doesn't exist," and "toxic masculinity hurts women."

The dominant message of the latter is that men can and should change, and that doing so wouldn't be that hard and likely will give us better sex doing with more honest emotional lives.

But YouTube comments on a joke/vent Twitter thread is pretty poor evidence of a "narrative." Didn't anyone tell you to never read the comments?

And that's not counting gay discussions about toxic masculinity and internalized homophobia that go back to WWII.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4374 ]

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here

Re: No one is here