fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4390 ]

[ SECRET POST #4390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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07. [SPOILERS for A Series of Unfortunate Events]

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08. [WARNING for discussion of rape]

[Tales of Zestiria]

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09. [WARNING for discussion of RL death]

[Walk Off The Earth]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #628.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I've got no problem with them and I'll refer to people as whatever they want me to when I talk about them to other people. I also believe that at least half of people identifiying as NB are either girls who don't understand that being a woman can be so much more than the mainstream depiction of The Feminine Ideal, or people who desperately cling to the closest thing they've got to not being a cishet.

Why "at least half"? I mean, where are you getting that estimate?

Yeah this is why I don't understand what NB is supposed to mean, because in my experience, the people I have seen who identify as NB are girls with short hair who dress boyishly.

That's not, in and of itself, proof of anything.

It's not no. I just don't understand what NB is supposed to be when all examples of it that have been shown to me, are merely people going against what society says how their binary gender should present visually.

Again, I don't care if people identify as NB, because it literally has nothing to do with me, I just don't understand it.

I just don't understand what NB is supposed to be when all examples of it that have been shown to me, are merely people going against what society says how their binary gender should present visually.

But... what are you actually looking for, then? What kind of examples would be satisfying to "count" as non-binary, based solely on external appearances and behaior? If you're analyzing people solely on external appearance and behavior, you're never going to find someone who couldn't belong to a binary gender. It's an impossibility. Whatever external appearances and behaviors someone has, it's never going to be something that stops them from identifying as a binary gender. So if that's what you're looking for, of course you're never going to find it.

If non-binary identity is a thing, it has to be on the basis of something other than external identifiers. At least, that's how it seems to me, not being non-binary myself.

To be honest, I have no idea. I don't know what NB is supposed to be, because the only explanations that I have been given for it from other people (both NB and non-NB) seem rooted in the visual and not say... body dysmorphia, etc.

Like I said, it's not necessary to me to understand something to be polite and call people what they themselves identify as, but I'm not going to pretend I understand either.

So as I understand it - again, not being a member of the group myself - the idea is that there's some concept of gender identity that's distinct from both physical sex (which EG body dysmorphia would be linked to) and also distinct from mere cultural binary gendered stereotypes. I don't entirely "get" what people are referring to myself when they talk about that, but it also doesn't seem implausible to me that people would feel it. Gender is such a complicated concept that I'm willing to just say OK and accept it.

Let me ask you something. How would you feel if people kept insisting on calling you pronouns that don't fit. Even when you correct them, they just chuckle and call you the wrong thing. It causes you discomfort every time it happens.

That's all it is. "These pronouns are mine, and I'm not a girl/boy. Please respect it."

I get body dysphoria. Not enough at this stage to go full legal and medical transition, but it's there.

I pass professionally and to avoid violence. But I'm very aware that I'm wearing a costume and putting on an act to avoid being bashed gain. However passing in a hostile environment has negative long-term health outcomes for many people, myself included. So part of surviving that includes developing a support system of friendly people. That support system is still hard to come by in many communities. Eventually, I'd like to restructure my life to eliminate the passing, but that's going to require a lot of work.

I have a nonbinary friend.

They used to want to mutilate themselves because they're agender and don't want any physical anything tied to that.

Not all people are like this--there are even trans people who will never fully transition because they know the medical tech just isn't there for it to end up how they need it to, and it won't be Good Enough until, say, they have a dick that works like a born male's does, or a vagina that works like a born female's. All the tube work, too. A lot of people just deal because passing as androgynous or being fluid (meaning that having periods of switching) is easier to pass as overall.

hard same. idk what percentage of people are just claiming the label so that someone doesn't ask them about pink and dresses and makeup and shopping but it's not zero.

you do you, kids, just make sure you're doing you and not someone else's idea of you.

Same here.

Yep. It's an "I'm not like those other girls" thing, usually rooted in a considerable amount of internal misogyny and/or self-hatred. It's based on the idea that feminine things are somehow bad and shameful and therefore identifying as female is equally bad and shameful.

I know because I've been there. Then I grew up and realized how stupid and sexist it was.

What about AMAB non-binary people

I think it's pretty telling that I have literally never met one. Ever.

So AFAB non binary identities aren't real because you personally used to identify that way and were wrong. And AMAB non binary identities aren't real because you personally haven't met any.

I'm familiar with a good number of trans women, but I have never in my life even heard about an AMAB NB person. I believe there are NB people and that there are AMAB NB people, but I don't think it's a coincidence that all NB people I've come across have been AFAB, and that all of those I've known IRL come from the same background (anime fandom).

Okay, if that makes it easy to dismiss them and their gender identities, ya bigot. Go for it.

I think it's telling for the same reason it's telling that there are "fewer" bisexual men than women. There aren't actually fewer, and you probably have met AMAB NB people: Just not ones that are out about it yet because it's less socially acceptable for someone to deviate from maleness.

I'm glad you took the opportunity to experiment with the idea that you might be nonbinary so that you could try it and eventually decide it's not fitting for who you are. More people should be able to feel comfortable doing that without being judged for it. Some of them will reach the same conclusion you did, and others will continue to feel at home in their NB identity for the rest of their lives. That would be so much healthier for everyone than being too ashamed to try it out because they'd be made to feel bad if they turn out to be wrong.

As a cis woman who’s never identified as anything else and also hated my body since shortly before I hit puberty for never being feminine enough, I seriously doubt every non-binary person in the world identifies that way out of internalized self-hatred. And I also don’t get why so many people are determined to shit on non-binary people. They’re not hurting anyone (not even themselves.) Save “that’s not a real self-identifier” for, idk, otherkin.

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[ SECRET POST #4390 ]

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