[ SECRET POST #4393 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4393 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 32 secrets from Secret Submission Post #629.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[philstar22]

Reasons do not always equal excuses. The point, at least to me, is that he has reasons just as Anakin had reasons to go dark. Those reasons don't mean anything he did was okay, just as nothing Anakin/Vader did was okay. But they are the same. Think those reasons don't work for you, fine. But to say that he has no characterization at all other than whiny is simply not true.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but what even IS his character besides "whiny evil bitch"? What choices did he make that weren't whiny or evil? What motivations does he have besides "be evil like grandpa Vader"?

For me, any glimmer of actual character was so overshadowed by his phenomenal tantrums that it's not worth discussing his possible reasoning. I understand that you have a different opinion, but clearly a decent-sized chunk of the audience didn't see what you did, and that's an issue.

[(Anonymous)]

What the fuck was Anakin's character besides whiny evil bitch

[(Anonymous)]

There were three whole movies almost entirely focused on Anakin's life from very early childhood to his "fall from grace", versus Kylo having at best an hour of his own dedicated screentime, and much less discussing his motivations and characterizations. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

[(Anonymous)]

I think Kylo and Anakin have comparable amounts of motivation.

At the very least, if you think that Kylo is entitled, then Anakin pretty much has to be entitled.

[(Anonymous)]

Since you insist on the comparison:

Anakin's motivations, as presented in the movies: mistreated as a slave since birth, fears losing his mother, personally rejected by the Jedi council, loses a mentor, fears losing the love of his life, continuing rejection by the council he's pledged his life to, outright manipulation by superior villain, fears losing his children, and rather horrific injuries to boot.

Kylo's motivations, as presented in the movies: unsure about his place in his (admittedly) complicated family, nudged from a distance for who knows how long by a vaguely-explained villain, gets scared one time by his uncle

[(Anonymous)]

I think the Jedi Council and Obi-Wan stuff is at least as entitled as anything that Kylo does. Doesn't he literally have a scene where he whines about how Obi-Wan never listens to him? Despite the fact that Obi-Wan and the council have very reasonable justifications for doubting him? And I don't think that there's a ton of difference between Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin and Snoke's manipulation of Kylo. It seems to me like it's pretty much the same thing, it's just that we only see one on screen.

IDK, it seems to me like they're pretty similar characters in a lot of ways. I think, as a character, Kylo benefits from better acting and writing (and of course, the other difference is that Kylo is just a villain, at least so far; Anakin is supposed to be a sympathetic protagonist, to some extent).

[(Anonymous)]

1) you keep bringing up "entitlement" as if it factors into the motivations being discussed at all

and 2) so you're gonna gloss over Anakin's fear about losing his loved ones which is literally the crux of his main plot and how his love was what led to his downfall and self-destruction. And the slavery. Sure, if you take those out, they're almost the same.

[(Anonymous)]

1) you keep bringing up "entitlement" as if it factors into the motivations being discussed at all

Because the thread started by talking about Kylo being entitled? And that seems strange to me? Especially comparing him to Anakin?

2) so you're gonna gloss over Anakin's fear about losing his loved ones which is literally the crux of his main plot and how his love was what led to his downfall and self-destruction. And the slavery

Isn't the fear about losing his loved ones part of the manipulation by Palpatine? Like, wasn't Palpatine the one giving him all the weirdo prophecy-dreams in the first place?

The thing with the slavery is that... well, it kind of depends on what we're actually talking about here, right? Certainly, slavery is a worse thing to have happened to Anakin than anything that happened in Kylo Ren's life. If the competition is for who has had a harder life, there's no doubt that it's Anakin.

But if we're specifically talking about how it affected them in the story, and how it affected their motivations for the villainous shit they do later, then I'm not so sure. Because I think the slavery plays a similar role, for Anakin, that Kylo's relationship with Anakin might have played for Kylo, in terms of providing the motivation for him to later be a villain.

(Also, I don't think that the movies actually do a good job of portraying the link between Anakin being a slave, and Anakin later being a villain)

[(Anonymous)]

"Entitlement" implies wanting something you haven't "earned", and while yes the anon at the start of the thread called Kylo entitled, I don't think it follows that therefore Anakin is ALSO entitled. If anything, Anakin felt he was "entitled" to being listened to and given basic respect after a lifetime of not having that, whereas Kylo's sense of entitlement is overinflated from basically nothing, hence the word being used for him a lot.

And nope, Anakin was rejected by the council in Phantom Menace at age 9 for his fears about his mother, way before Palpatine, and it grew from there. I know there are theories/suggestions about Palps pulling strings way before that, but as with Kylo's "backstory", I go off what was presented in the movies alone.

...okay but Kylo didn't HAVE a relationship with Anakin. He idolized Vader for vague reasons, sure, but how is that comparable other than "it's a reason". If one person turns evil for a cookie and the other turns evil after years of torture, sure they both turned evil, but they're hardly comparable.

(And yes the movies all suck but at least we have 3 movies of effort for Anakin, which just does not exist for Kylo)

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT—Worry for and grief about the fate of his mother who died because Jedi weren’t allowed emotional attachments. Fear for his wife who he strangled half to death. But honestly that’s still more development than “killed his dad because his evil mentor told him to but briefly hesitated to turn his mother into a plasma smear look how woobie he is” Kylo Ren.