fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4414 ]

[ SECRET POST #4414 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4414 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 34 secrets from Secret Submission Post #632.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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02. https://i.imgur.com/cFnGQh8.png

I miss the time when good intentions weren't torn apart for not being woke enough.

Ideally there'd be some kind of middle ground here, where we could recognize that intentions aren't magic and don't erase somebody's fuckup, but also respond to fuckups in a way that doesn't always involve tearing people totally to shreds.

nayrt

And also not treat "not relentlessly woke enough in all things" as equivalent to fuckups. Because that is just exhausting

This this this.

I don't think those are necessarily the same things? IDK tho man

Most of the time, they are - especially in that a large part of what was at one point deemed subtext and is now deemed queerbaiting is actually just fans actively seeking to paint any interaction between the characters they ship as supportive of that ship.

They're very difficult to disentangle in practice, but they're still different things in principle.

The way they're used in practice has rendered the principle all but useless.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 00:31 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 14:52 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 02:21 (UTC) - Expand

I don't know. I think "gaybaiting" is used far too often, often because what fandom calls "subtext" is a bad case of the shipping goggles.

On the other hand, there definitely seems to be an uptick in creatives leaning into subtext through interviews and panel discussions for works that are explicitly "no homo" in text.

personally i have a hard time taking queerbait accusations seriously anymore because more than half the time it's shippers mad their obviously never-going-to-happen fanon pet-ship isn't canon.

actual cases of queerbait are pretty rare imo, either a relationship is textually canon, or they're friends(or enemies) who were never meant to be read as anything else, but the shippers have their goggles on too tight.

Or one of the 20 times last year where a film's producers told us that the characters in a film were totally queer but ~~~unfortunately~~~ the scene that confirmed it ended up on the cutting room floor?

(or never actually existed outside of 1 radio interview, in the case of Lando being pan)

I'm sorry China hates gays.

Even if you accept the logic that China hates gays and therefore there can be no gays in blockbuster movies: don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining

DA

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 00:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: DA

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 01:06 (UTC) - Expand

Venom was very popular in China, I hear.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 07:57 (UTC) - Expand

personally i have a hard time taking queerbait accusations seriously anymore because more than half the time it's shippers mad their obviously never-going-to-happen fanon pet-ship isn't canon.

Looking at you, Klance shippers.

Jup. As someone way late to Voltron, who had previously ignored most of the fandom (I knew the ship names, cause how can you not), I was so baffled by Klance. Sheith I could sorta get. But Klance? New, maybe a bit friendlier Sterek tbh.

I also don't think they're the same thing, though fans probably interpret them similarly. On one hand, I always loved subtext and I still enjoy it much more than none at all. On the other hand, I guess I also am more cognizant of the fact that I'm to the point where I just want it to be canon?

Take anime. I think it can be both subtextual and queerbaiting because m/m stuff is done deliberately to please the BL crowds. But often the pairing isn't "queerbait-and-switched", there's no het endgame. And in anime, often even het pairings aren't explicit. I still like it, but I'd like it more if I saw an on-screen kiss. Something like Free was really exciting, but these days you have something like Yuri on Ice, too. (Though canon gay examples are still scarce in anime.)

Anyway, I'm happy to get excited about subtext, especially if it's done with serious consideration to the pairing. But I can't help thinking why it isn't explicit, what choice went into that, when we are passing the point of what censorship and/or scandal will allow.

Me too, OP. Me too.

Meanwhile I'm tired of, in 2019, still being so taboo that I'm only teased with the gay instead of them fucking going for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Subtext would be fine if there were a lot more Actual Gay Shit instead of "Tee hee look we're giving you the gay without actually pissing off the homophobes."

This. My dad, a big Trekkie watching Discovery for the first time made a comment the other day about how he thought it was almost perfect but a few flaws. And one of the flaws was them shoving a gay relationship down his throat. And fuck that. The existence of gay characters is not shoving gay down your throat. There needs to be more gay until it becomes just natural and not at all surprising when a character just happens to be gay.

Funny how you give an example that is one of many of actual gay shit when saying you're tired of it only being teased.

I remember when there was actually no gay shit on TV. There is now. I'm grateful. You and the thread OP sound like you're teenagers.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2019-02-05 11:11 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

philstar22 - 2019-02-05 11:46 (UTC) - Expand

Fucking amen to that.

Absolutely agree

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