fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #615 ]

[ SECRET POST #615 ]

⌈ Secret Post #615 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Early cause I have class!

STILL RANK 35 → [ pop ind sec env com ]

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 94 secrets from Secret Submission Post #088.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - troll ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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... You're kind of a dumbass.

1) Getting bitten by a vampire != getting raped. For one thing, people don't actually get bitten by vampires. They do get bitten by things, but injury is sort of different than trauma.
2) "This really bothers me" != "How dare you!"
3) "Noncon fans have unsympathetic conduct towards actual rape survivors" != "ALL OF YOU ARE PRO-RAPIST"

What the hell, seriously. Is it that hard to at least try to extend a little sympathy to people who feel this way, or does that somehow compromise your ability to keep liking what you like?

Is it that hard to stop assuming that people who write those fics have no personal experience with actual rape? Not every rape survivor feels or reacts the same way. While I do sympathize with other survivors and I wish them well, I don't appreciate the self-righteous attitude. If stories that depict rape as "non-con" bother them...well, you can see where I'm going with this. Their personal preferences about fic shouldn't be used to invalidate the preferences of the author and/or other readers.

No, it isn't. I'm not making that assumption. But again, emotional responses are not something that you reason through and I think that the OP's feelings are understandable and not coming from a place of self-righteousness so much as hurt and anger.

I don't think it's fair to expect them to stop being upset any more than it's fair for them to expect you to stop reading and writing what you want. I mean, you basically just made that argument, but you don't seem to be applying it to both sides.

"I don't think it's fair to expect them to stop being upset any more than it's fair for them to expect you to stop reading and writing what you want. I mean, you basically just made that argument, but you don't seem to be applying it to both sides."

EXACTLY. that's exactly what's bothering me about this whole thing. you totally just said it there.

except that they keep getting all up in our face about it. they're upset. fine. they're entitled to be upset.

STOP FUCKING TELLING ME ABOUT IT, ALREADY. I GOT IT THE FIRST HUNDRED TIMES IT'S BEEN SAID.

and it's not going to change many minds.

You're not entitled to never be criticised.

I don't believe I said or even inferred anywhere in my response that people can't or shouldn't be upset. However, I did infer that they probably shouldn't read stories that upset them. If people choose to read things that upset them, it is not the author's fault for writing the story in the first place.

From what I've understood, I think the OP is upset about the fact that there's people enjoying the fantasies and writing about it, not about reading them herself.

Ah. I understand that she's offended and I do sympathize with what she's going through. I can even get behind her on the How Dare They train because I know I've said that about quite a few fic phenomena.

Everyone's entitled to their feelings and as long as the OP doesn't demand that her personal offense form a guideline for what others can write or fantasize about, vent away.

I think the OP is upset about the fact that there's people enjoying the fantasies and writing about it

and that is where I tell her to step the fuck off. she has every right to be upset.

she does not have the right to tell us about it and expect us to stop (through the use of guilt and emotional blackmail) writing and enjoying the fantasies.

Reading the secret, she said no such thing. She said that sometimes when she read people saying "I wish so and so would rape me" a part of her thought that actually getting raped might teach them more sensitivity about the subject. She knows it's a nasty, irrational thought that she doesn't really wish on anyone. She did not tell them about it and expect them to stop. She said it was a kneejerk reaction in her mind from the part of her that hadn't gotten over her own trauma. She didn't guilt anybody. And she made it a secret because she said she didn't tell her friends about feeling hurt because it made them angry.

Honestly, I don't see why it's okay for somebody to share the secret "I wish the Joker would rape me" and not okay for somebody to share the secret of their emotional reaction to those secrets. People don't have problem sharing their emotional reactions to people wishing Heath Ledger dead so he can't mess up the Joker. What's wrong with this?

You don't have to read it to be upset by its existence. I mean, I've never read a lot of white supremacy books,* but I still don't like them.

***** NO I AM NOT COMPARING WHITE SUPREMACY TO RAPE FANTASY *****

True enough and while I lol'd at your disclaimer, I sadly understand its necessity.

As I said before, my main issue with the secret wasn't the OP's feelings about the stories but the notion that rape victims can't/don't/shouldn't write rape fantasy stories. I've seen this same argument before, that if the writer really understood rape from the victim's perspective, they would never write another story like that again. That sort of fallacious argument bothers me. Not everyone responds to traumatic events like rape in a "textbook" fashion and having a different response doesn't invalidate their experience.

I think that's fair, but I also think that the OP's feelings aren't rational ones and that it's kind of pointless to try to rationalize them.

I think it's okay to be bothered by it and all, but like... What's the point when those words are obviously spoken out of hurt and anger? Surely that's something we can sympathize with?

Can I be upset about the existence of the Twilight saga and vampire stories in general then? D:

(no subject)

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-09-11 21:42 (UTC) - Expand

This.

Sorry to jump in but I totally agree here. I've never thankfully been in this kind of situation but I dont see why showing some consideration to those who are is such an issue for these people. I've been reading some of the comment and I'm kind of shocked at how hostile people are being to 104, so she's bothered, what's the problem with that? I dont think rape fantasies are evil and pro rapist but i dont think someone who has been through that feeling grossed out by rape fantasies is something people have a right to be angry about. but everyone wants to live in their own little bubbles of fantasy that they forget reality exists.

I think some of us aren't even pro rape fantasies. We're just having fun with the wank.

I think it might have something more to do with the fact that she wished rape on people who write rape fantasy.

So they're allowed to have their rape fantasies, but she's not allowed to have hers? The only difference is she fantasizes about rape as punishment, they fantasize about it as sex.

Are you actually that stupid, or are you doing it on purpose?

Let me break this down:

The mouse above wondered why people were getting angry at the OP. You replied that it's because she "wished rape" on non-con writers.

First off, to be fair, the OP said she does NOT wish rape on non-con writers; she said she "thinks that experiencing it first hand might teach [them] some fucking sensitivity".

She thinks it. It happens in her mind. Isn't everyone here defending non-con fic defending it on the grounds that it's not real? Now you may argue that she's fantasizing about real people getting raped, but there is plenty of RPF non-con out there, which I'm sure people would jump to the defense to if someone criticized that as well.

I'm not saying I agree with any one side, I'm just saying I find it ironic that people are jumping on her for thinking about certain people getting raped, while at the same time defending their own right to think about certain people getting raped.

Re: 104

pikabot - 2008-09-12 00:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 104

(Anonymous) - 2008-09-12 15:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 104

mechanicaljewel.livejournal.com - 2008-09-12 16:30 (UTC) - Expand

how the hell are we supposed to show this sympathy when we are writing? put in a huge disclaimer that says

OMG ALL REAL RAPE IS BAD. THIS ISN'T REAL RAPE. I HAVE FULL SYMPATHY FOR ALL YOU RAPE SURVIVORS OUT THERE! PLEASE DON'T HATE ME FOR HAVING THIS HORRIBLE, NASTY AND TRAUMATIZING KINK!!!

what, exactly, does the op want, since you seem to be speaking for her, perhaps you can enlighten us?

I don't know what the OP wants and I've already made my suggestion - handle this anger with sympathy when it arises. Obviously you seem to think that's too much to ask.

It seems to me that she wants people to stop writing rape as a kinky good time and write more realistic portrayals of assault and the aftermath.

That's my read on the secret anyway.

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