[ SECRET POST #4467 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4467 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Sex and the City]


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[Robert Sheehan (Actor from Umbrella Academy and Misfits)]


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[Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 12 secrets from Secret Submission Post #639.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I don't LOVE BtVS the way I used to as a teen, but.

The thing I will always love about BtVS is that Buffy is not just a girl, but a hardcore girly-girl, and the narrative goes out of its way to make sure you don't forget that she's a girly-girl, but the narrative also never, ever acts like there's a conflict between Buffy's girliness and her strength and bravery and other positive qualities. It never acts like she would be stronger or braver or somehow more deserving of respect if she were less girly.

It's something that, even today, not that many shows do consistently with their female protagonists, and I wish more stories did it, because I think the pervasive societal message that "girly" = stupid and not worthy of respect is still going strong and needs to be challenged a lot more than it is.

[(Anonymous)]

This is why I love Sailor Moon too. She was allowed to be very girly and wasn't shamed for it and instead it was arguably one of her greatest strengths.

[(Anonymous)]

Sailor Moon isn't considered a girly girl in Japan. Remember the episode where she took etiquette classes to be a "proper lady" and finally went "Fuck it, this isn't me"? That was her trying to be a girly girl and failing at it. Americans think Sailor Moon is girly because she wears cute clothes and is a hopeless romantic, but in Japan her loud and disobedient personality cancels that out a million times over. Mercury is the best example of what the original audience for Sailor Moon would consider a girly girl.

[(Anonymous)]

How many full-on masculine female character are there, though? I honestly can't think of any, and certainly not any main characters. Main female characters always have to have some feminine aspect (though those feminine aspects are generally seen as weaknesses and ways to weaken the character and make her not so scary and challenging to men). In Buffy, Faith is the closest we get, and she's very sexual and about turning men on.

Don't get me wrong, I like Buffy. And I like that she was girly. But I still wish there were more female characters that actually were masculine and allowed to be.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that there aren't very many main female characters that are traditionally "masculine," and I'm all for there being more. I mean, Kara Thrace is a favorite character of mine, and I'd argue that she's fairly masculine in the traditional sense. She's not completely and utterly devoid of all femininity, but I'd say she's far more "guyish" than "girlish."

That said, I also think Buffy is rarer than a lot of people give her credit for in that she's not just feminine. She's girly. She likes shopping and fashion and she's sad when she breaks a nail and has to wear a press-on. And the narrative is 100% cool with her being girly and still the lead and still the strongest most active most essential character to the plot.

I think both these types of characters challenge pervasive societal approaches to women. The first one challenges the idea that it's of utmost importance for a woman, regardless of whatever else she is, to be attractive and pleasing to men (because while there are men who will be attracted to masculine women, the majority probably won't be). The second one challenges the idea that girliness is antithetical - even deleterious - to whatever other valuable qualities one might possess.

Not that I mind more standard-feminine characters either. There's plenty of those I love too. But I do wish there were more of both masculine and girly characters that the narrative respects and doesn't strive to "normalize" over time.

[(Anonymous)]

yea, buffy is given all those hyper feminine markers you would traditionally see on mean, shallow, dumb female characters in media.
i mean, she wanted to be a cheerleader! prom queen! and the narrative didn't refuse her those things because she had to learn that it was dumb and shallow to want them, it was tragic that she couldn't because of her fate. (((((and then it gave her a different award from her classmates for always protecting them cue me bawling my eyes out i really love this show)))))

[froodle]

Teenagers en masse can be gracious! *bursts into tears*

I still love seasons 1-3 of Buffy. So much.

[silverr]

I guess it depends on your definition of "full-on masculine"?

Trinity, Aeryn Sun, Xena, and Kira Nerys struck me as distinctly "un-girly" as initially presented. Sarah Connor got less girly. I'm not sure where to put Ripley.