fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4483 ]

[ SECRET POST #4483 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4483 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Making fun of anti-vaxxers is probably one of the worst ways to reduce the problem because it puts them on the defensive and double down. As misguided as they are, they want the best for their kids and fail to acknowledge that with understanding will not bode well for anyone.

I think it's generally hard to figure out how to deal with conspiracy theorists, and anti-vaxxers are no exception. That said, I don't think you can blame people for getting frustrated and expressing that frustration about extremely harmful conspiracy theorists. And you also really can't equivocate about their wrongness.

If they're actively making the problem worse, no matter their intentions, I can blame them. People really need to learn conflict resolution. Additionally, it's already hit critical mass so I don't think it matters as much now, but commenting about anti-vaxxers exposes more people to the idea, which in turn made more people anti-vaxxers

I don't think that "conflict resolution" is necessary a useful framework here. The problem is not how to get anti-vaxxers to stop fighting with people, the problem is figuring out how to get them to stop being anti-vaxxers. I'm not saying that I know how to do that, but I'm not sure you don't have the wrong end of the stick.

And, again, I think there are things that you really can't compromise on here, vix, anti-vaxxers are thoroughly factually wrong and harmful.

How to reason with them then? Hard to reason with someone who won't believe facts.

TBH, as a stranger, there's not much you can do beyond strengthing vax legislation. If it's someone you know, find common ground (ie child's health), keep as neutral and non-judgemental as possible, make them question their sources , and bow out if things are getting heated. It's not easy or super effective by any means, but it's a whole hell of lot better than making fun of them.

Yeah, legislation is honestly the only way we're gonna get unfucked. And here's my unpopular opinion: literally every single exemption outside of immunodisorders (diagnosed by a professional) that would prevent a child from receiving vaccines should be eliminated. No more religious exemptions. Nothing. Your kid is vaxxed, has papers saying they literally can't, or your kid is not going to any daycare/school/camp/etc.

Exactly. Some people just will not listen to logic and facts no matter what angle you come at it from.

I've heard that going, "You know I used to think [X] + [maybe some elaboration on why you thought X], but then I read/took a class/was told by someone in the know/had an illuminating experience and it changed my viewpoint a bit," is a way of disagreeing with someone that it more likely to affect their own opinion. And while you're still probably only going to have an incremental effect on that person's opinion (if any at all), I think using that basic format is probably more effective than most other ways of disagreeing with someone.

HOWEVER, honestly? I freely admit I don't have the patience to baby people about their harmfully stupid and/or hateful opinions. It would be more constructive if I did, but I don't. And I fully understand why other people don't either.

Exactly. It's not hard in this day and age to do proper research about vaccines. You have to try really, really hard to remain that ignorant.

I don't think you get how propaganda works

Propaganda doesn't remove your ability to exercise critical thinking skills and do your own independent research, or consult your primary physician.

No, but it makes more likely that they'll consult the wrong resources and stop believing their primary physician. A lot of anti-vaxxers don't even have a primary physician.

I mean, people have literally 'sat down' and pulled out scientific sources as to why they're Super Wrong, and they've doubled down on their batshit, so I'm honestly not sure what other options there are.

Also, it's equally important to keep other people from becoming anti vaxxers as it is to convery anti vaxxers, and you could argue social pressure helps do that

Nah, it also increases awareness so more people are exposed to the idea.

It does both, to a certain extent. And maybe if people are exposed to it in a way that presents it as thoroughly incorrect, they'll be able to reject it in the future since they know how to do it. I think that could be really beneficial.

Literally any approach to dealing with anti-vaxxers puts them on the defensive and makes them double down, because that's how conspiracy theorists work. Attempt to reason with them? The existence of facts that run counter to their preferred narrative is proof the conspiracy is true. Attempt to appeal to their empathy? You're trying to take away their freedom, which proves the conspiracy is true? Their own damn kid goes behind their backs to get vaccinated? Big pharma has clearly brainwashed their child, which proves the conspiracy is true.

Pretty much the only thing that will cause an anti-vaxxer to convert is for one of their children to not just contract a vaccine-preventable disease, but to contract it and actually be unfortunate enough to suffer serious complications - and even that's not a guarantee.

this is true. it might be better to use the same method of manipulation that turned them into anti-vaxxers in the first place, in this case faulty internet ads they saw on facebook. you could combat the fake ads with a flood of factual ads on social media.

the other way to do it is through the church. most anti-vaxxers are hardcore religious people who would believe a preacher over a doctor. get church leaders to start preaching about the benefits of vaccination and maybe the followers will listen.

arguing with anti-vaxxers isn't going to change their minds, you're absolutely right. the most feasible way to change their minds is through manipulation.

Is anti-vax bs really being spread by churches now? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised the way I was when I found out at least one of the big essential oil companies is a pyramid scheme working hand in glove with evangelical Christian churches. My mental image of both anti-vaxxers and herbal/alternative medicine users was more “hippie atheist/new ager” than “Jesus saves so you don’t need vaccines.” My parents were hippies and I went and got vaccinated as an adult because they’d gotten a personal belief exemption when I was a kid, luckily no longer legal in California.

There is a trait in common through religion and antivaxx and pyramid schemes, and it's that those people are more likely to "just have faith" in things.

This is not to say that religion is necessarily a scam or fake or that faith is bad when judiciously applied. Just that many pyramid schemes and conspiracy theories abuse the same framework to target the people already inclined to those things.

Pyramid schemes especially prey upon religious people - like stay at home moms that evangelicals say should be a homemaker but who want to have a side-job at home for extra money - that find the kind of speech and sermonization and affirming group celebratory things they use familiar and comforting. If you look at some of their writings it's creepily similar to religious tracts, and that's on purpose. There's a reason MLMs are rampant in places like Utah, or that people think of Amway as a cult. Some anti-vaxxers do the same with "nature" and "what God intended" and "God's plan" using words that in theory empower parents with purpose and cause but use their faith or religion against them.

I think you're right, but honestly, changing their minds isn't really on the table for most anti-vaxxers no matter how kind and patient you are. Because if they were that amenable to reason and logic, they wouldn't be anti-vaxx. They're woefully misinformed and determined to stay that way. So people give up and mock. /shrug

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4483 ]

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