[ SECRET POST #4605 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4605 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
[Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines]


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03.
[Avengers: Endgame]


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04.
[The Parent Trap]


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06.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #659.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/l5DpKZF.png
[Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines]

[(Anonymous)]

What are some examples of what they want to change?
Asking because I honestly just would like to know before getting interested in this.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe OP's referring to them removing or toning down a lot of the old "questionable" shit, like "Here is the vampire gypsy clan who steal compulsively! Here's the Italian vampires who are the mob but with more literal bloodsucking! Here's the wacky crazy vampires, aren't they wacky and crazy?"

[(Anonymous)]

Idk they haven't actually gotten rid of any of those things, have they? If the idea is that things should be treated with the respect they deserve, not making Ravnos the clan of literal Gypsy thieves seems like a reasonable alteration

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just gonna preface this with a warning letting people know I'm probably going to talk about things most would consider triggering.

I'm not OP so I can't speak for them, but a lot of what drew me to it was that cWoD was a darker setting, one that showed you the worst in people. And it wasn't just the kindred! It was a system meant to push and potentially break characters.

You can have a story in D&D but you mostly slayed monsters, grabbed your loot, went off to the next adventure. It's an escape from the real world, essentially. In VtM, you are the monster people are trying to slay. That makes everything much more personal. You're struggling with yourself/your beast and you're trying not to succumb to it.

This game examines the human condition. It's the very reason humanity is a game mechanic. The more depraved things you do, the closer to the beast you're going to get. And let's face it, luring in people to feed off of them, creating ghouls to do your bidding in the day, doing all sorts of shit to get one up on your other kindred? They're terrible things. You have to find the balance so you don't become a feral beast but it gets harder and harder every night.

To quote John Dalberg-Acton, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." And you see it in this universe. The majority of the Princes, the Primogen, the Keepers - hell, the Sabbat side, the Arch-Bishops, etc. - none of them got where they are by being shining beacons of morality and the ones that do are often dusted.

This is a long ass rant that has the potential to get longer but I'm going to end it there and give you a little food for thought. The Eternal Hearts book in the series (which I don't recommend, it's a fucking terrible book) has a preface that brings up a very valid point: "Ultimately, the vampire is a rape fantasy." And looking at what they do, what they go through, it's true. They are. People are embraced against their will, they are fed from against their will, Ghouls have their autonomy essentially removed from them and become walking consent issues.

The World of Darkness has always been a dark place.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand that, and I'm not arguing against that! Vampire should be a dark game, should deal with mature themes, should be a game of horror. But I don't understand the connection between that and the things that were mentioned. I don't understand why you need a clan of Gypsy stereotypes in the Ravnos to tell stories about darkness and power, or why the Malkavians should embody harmful stereotypes about mental illness. Changing the way that the Malkavians work or the way that Ravnos are depicted doesn't stop you from telling stories about them or telling adult, mature stories or telling dark stories. And more generally, I think that an approach that's careful about things where dark themes butt up against real world issues is good - still telling the stories, just being more careful in those specific circumstances.

(actually I don't even remember, didn't the Ravnos get wiped out in the metaplot at one point? whatever happened with that)

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't get the Ravnos/Malk issue from what I read of their post. I just read someone fed up with people crying about the darker subjects the game usually touches on. Like, to bring it up again, consent.

[(Anonymous)]

OK - in that case, I'm not sure what exactly the specific issues are WRT changes around consent, but I think the broader point is still reasonable, which is, I agree that the game should engage with consent and that those themes are intrinsic to Vampire, but it should ideally do so in a way that's cognizant of the difficulty of doing so also.

[(Anonymous)]

OP here. This. Not sure why people think I’m upset about the Ravnos and Malkavian changes, or that comment saying I want to use the N word (boy, was that a reach), but given the nature of the game itself you should expect darker subjects.

[(Anonymous)]

But who's getting rid of dark subjects

[4thofeleven]

Basically, there was a bit of a shitstorm over the most recent pen and paper edition of the RPG, where the guy who was running it turned out to be a bit of an edgelord dipshit. There was a bit of controversy regarding what looked like alt-Right dog-whistles in the preview scenario and a bunch of really stupid things he said in interviews.

Then... then he released a preview of the new setting, which among other things, included the detail that in the world of the RPG, Chechnya is actually run by vampires, the real-life president is secretly a vampire, and the ongoing persecution of LGBT+ people in that region is really just cover for vampire attacks.

Needless to say, this pissed off nearly everyone, who didn't think it was cool to use a real-life atrocity as material for your vampire pretend game. It also didn't amuse the Russian government, who were pissed for the opposite reason - and communicated their displeasure to the game's publishers.

So, having come up with a terrible, offensive idea and having nearly caused an international incident, the designer and writer of the fifth edition has been quietly removed from his job, and the owners of the IP have decided to rewrite the material he was contributing.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure what exactly you actually have in mind here so it's hard to say for sure. But definitely, I think the worst parts of VtM stuff in recent years has been when it attempted to be edgy and transgressive and completely failed at doing so (and in one case, actually caused an international incident). So I feel like it might be for the best.

Then again I also generally prefer nWoD stuff in general so *shrug*

[belladonna_took]

The vampire guy looks like Jake Peralta in a wig.

[(Anonymous)]

CANNOT UNSEE

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my fuck he does
Holy shit

[(Anonymous)]

i bet they won't even say the n-word how can that possibly be immersive smh :/

[(Anonymous)]

buddy that reach

[(Anonymous)]

had to reach out to the op somehow didn't i?

thinking people who expect you to not be an insensitive fuckwad expect "sunshine and rainbows" out of their wod is dumb as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[(Anonymous)]

Screw the Masquerade, gimme my Garou already

[dahli]

Woah, let's step back for a second here: they are remaking the game????

[(Anonymous)]

They're making a sequel to go with the 5e of the new game.

[dahli]

Ah, gotcha.

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who plays Werewolf, specifically Old Werewolf...

Fuck off with this, our house rule was always "ignore the really weird racist shit." Because there were a lot of racist stereotypes and Noble Savage tropes.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I've played and/or GMed the majority of the main oWoD lines and a few of the weird spinoffs, and if they release a new edition where my group doesn't have to house rule out the weird racist and xenophobic horseshit, I will be fucking delighted.