Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-10-14 05:01 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-10-14 05:01 pm
[ SECRET POST #648 ]
⌈ Secret Post #648 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
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102.
[FF7; Crisis Core]
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103.
[Parting Glances; Steve Buscemi]
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104.
[Transformers movie/New Knight Rider]
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105.
[Creepy houses in Stephen King novels]
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106.
[Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's]
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107.
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108.
[Dexter]
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109.
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110.
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111.
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112.
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113.
[Looking for Group webcomic]
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114.
[Tales of Symphonia]
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[Supernatural]
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[Persona 3; Minato/Aigis]
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[Dallas]
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[Doctor Who]
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125.
[To the Manor Born]
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129.
[BNFs?]
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130.
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131.
[Jonathan Coulton/Portal]
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132.
[Prince of Tennis]
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134.
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135.
[Pushing Daisies]
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136.
[House MD]
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137.
[Supernatural]
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138.
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139.
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140.
[Emma Watson]
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141.
[The French Revolution?/Shipping]
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142.
[The Dark Knight]
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143.
[Prince of Tennis musical]
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144.
[Kiefer Sutherland]
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152.
[Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's]
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154.
[Code Geass]
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157.
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158.
[Spongebob Squarepants; Squidward]
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159.
[*secret comms]
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160.
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161.
[Fullmetal Alchemist]
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162.
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163. [not fandom]
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168.
[CHUCK NORRIS]
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170.
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171.
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172.
[Fullmetal Alchemist]
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173.
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[Batman Begins; Scarecrow]
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[Supernatural]
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176.
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177.
[Henry Rollins]
Notes:
CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/
Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 224 secrets from Secret Submission Post #093.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - a random picture but it's cool ].
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-10-15 03:35 am (UTC)(link)First of all, I'm sorry that I phrased it that way. It was unnecessarily aggressive and I hope that I didn't offend anybody. But I would say they're "bullshit excuses" if they don't make any logical sense. Many people have used the double standard where people who are otherwise fine with non-canon pairings, suddenly turn into Canon Nazis at the first mention of slash. Obviously, the answer they gave for disliking slash ("It's not canon!") doesn't work, so it leaves me wondering what their real reason is.
The criticism is HELLA valid if you're approaching it from a familiarity with yaoi, I'll tell you that much.
Maybe. Not having read any yaoi, I really can't comment.
It doesn't matter if het romance is known for being 100% accurate, they're two different things and you can't just rip them out of context to compare them.
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Out of context? And we're talking about romantic fanfic, aren't we? Other than the gender of the characters involved, I don't see any huge difference.
no subject
Without getting into a diatribe on canon vs. fanon, that's a perfectly fair assessment.
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Out of context? And we're talking about romantic fanfic, aren't we? Other than the gender of the characters involved, I don't see any huge difference.
Even romantic fanfic has a context - specifically, the culture (and subculture!) in which it's written. For instance: I think there's something to the "slash pairings aren't realistic" argument, and it can't really be compared to het, because often when people say that "slash pairings aren't realistic," what they often MEAN is "slash pairings are written like het, and they're not."
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-10-15 04:18 am (UTC)(link)I'm going to assume that you mean that some slash writers make one of the male characters much more stereotypically feminine than he is in canon. Which is a fair criticism, and something that definitely bothers me, too. But het romances that have female characters acting like refugees from a Harlequin aren't realistic either. Nobody, of any gender, acts like that.
Besides, in my experience, there are a lot of slash writers out there who fetishize masculinity ("I WANT MY MEN TO BE MEN!!!") and write the characters as much butcher than they are in canon. Even though this is just as OOC as the heteroizing I'm assuming you're talking about, nobody seems to get upset about it.
no subject
And sure, there are bad Harlequin characterizations, but I'm not sure what your point is there... People complain about that kind of dynamic all the time.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-10-15 05:05 am (UTC)(link)I don't think so. I was talking about fics where both of the characters are Very Very Manly. They're emotionally constipated, completely incapable of saying the word "love" and frequently rhapsodize about how wonderful it is to have sex with someone who's the same size as you. Since very few people are 100% masculine, fics that ignore any "girly" parts of a character's personality are OOC.
Just the inability to conceptualize a slash pairing as anything other than a het pairing, but, you know, with two penises.
Now, I haven't been in a heterosexual romance since high school, so I can't speak authoritatively but I'm pretty sure that all het couples aren't all the same. And since there's no one way to act like a "het pairing" then I'm going to assume that you're talking about stereotypical romantic cliches. Which, like I said, are not realistic period. Especially not for the female characters in most of the fandoms I know about (I'm trying to think of any fandoms where it would be IC to write about the fragile little woman who just needs a big strong man to protect her. So far, I haven't come with any).
The real problem is that most people have a very narrow, limited view of how romance works (in fiction, that is). It's just obvious in slash because we're not used to it. That doesn't mean that it's more acceptable in het -- just less noticeable.
Ugh, sorry if this is incoherent, but... I just don't understand why this is a big deal. I mean, sure it's bad to write characters as OOC but I don't know why this particular kind of OOC is so much worse than any other.
no subject
I don't know. I maintain that there are differences between het and slash, at least in terms of the fandom, the whole conversation surrounding it (or lack thereof) is a mess.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-10-15 05:47 am (UTC)(link)This is also one that gets to me for personal reasons: someone looking at me probably wouldn't know I'm a lesbian. Since I rarely talk about my personal life, someone who didn't know me very well would think that I was straight. So I get a bit irked by claims that everyone who doesn't wear a giant scarlet Q is automatically heterosexual.
no subject
It's also not just the sexuality that's OOC. There's a propensity to slash brothers and best friends and I don't think it's always illegitimate to feel annoyed at seeing a meaningful platonic relationship sexualized.
On the other hand, a lot of the hostility from that could come from the fact that meaningful platonic relationships in media are most usually between two men. Eliminating platonic relationships becomes an unintended side-effect of slash that draws a lot of ire.
There are so many different ways to look at this!
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-10-15 06:57 pm (UTC)(link)You're right. I'm sorry about that -- in my defense it was very late when I wrote my last few replies and my brain wasn't working well.
I don't think I'm being heteronormative when I make an argument for a happily married man being mostly straight and as disinclined to experiment as he is to cheat on his wife
Hmm... Do you mean experiment while he was still married? Because, in that case, I absolutely agree. But I would say that it is heteronormative to assume that a happily married man is mostly straight. There are plenty of bisexual people in long, stable heterosexual relationships, after all. Depending on how long the man has been with his wife, it's even possible that he had a few gay relationships before they were married.
I believe in a sliding scale of sexuality, but I don't think everybody slides from 1 - 10
I agree. While there are characters out there that I can buy as closeted gay men/lesbians, they're few and far between. You do have to take the characters previous heterosexual relationships into account when writing slash.
On the other hand, a lot of the hostility from that could come from the fact that meaningful platonic relationships in media are most usually between two men. Eliminating platonic relationships becomes an unintended side-effect of slash that draws a lot of ire.
Do you mean that slash is eliminating depictions of meaningful platonic relationships in the media? Because I haven't seen any evidence of that (though, now that I think about it, this may be true in anime fandoms. But since that's based on stuff I've heard from people who aren't even in those fandoms I probably should keep my mouth shut). While a few shows, House, for example, may occasionally play with homoerotic subtext, it never moves beyond fanservice. House and Wilson aren't going to start dating just because a few fans want them to. Besides, this sort of thing isn't exactly new: Due South was deliberately playing up the slashy subtext more than ten years ago. So, my point is that there is an increasing number of people who are interested in seeing two men (or two women) together and we're likely to see this reflected in the media. But the market for stories about platonic love between men than is significantly larger and will probably remain much larger, so I don't think it's in any danger of becoming extinct.