[ SECRET POST #4655 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4655 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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08. [SPOILERS for Chicago Med]

[Conner/Ava]







Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #666.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

They don't sound that way to me. Part of it is that the internet is A Thing now. Anybody and everybody can self publish. Quality control is basically rock bottom.

Were there always badly written stories and trashy pulp floating around? Yes. But if you're arguing that the average level of quality overall of published fiction is the same as before, you're just... wrong.

I'm not OP, and I don't even necessarily think the barriers being lower is a bad thing. The freedom to publish means a lot of good and well-written voices get heard that would have previously been blocked out by, for example, social prejudice. But like, one of the side effects of freedom to publish anything is, a lot of the "anything" is crap. Just like with internet fanfic.

[philstar22]

I don't disagree with that. What I disagree with them on is their belief that fanfiction can't be as good as good published fiction and can't be good practice for good published fic. What I have a problem with is their seeming grudge against fanfic as an art form. I have no problem with their feelings on crappy self-published fiction. That stuff is low quality, the same as low quality fanfic. But there is good fanfic out there, and the OP doesn't seem willing to acknowledge that.

[(Anonymous)]

They never said that good fanfic can't be as good as published fiction, I don't see where you're getting that.

I agree with them in the sense that writing your *typical* fanfiction is not good practice for writing what used to be traditional published work. Writing fanfiction *can* be good practice, but you have to go out of your way to write it in the style of traditional published fiction, and it is really very true that most people do not bother to do that. Which is fine for them to not do, but tropey PWP smut fics do not traditional novels make.

In the same vein, drawing anime fanart *can* be good practice for drawing published comics. But saying "anime fanart is good practice for drawing published comics (in general)" I would say is not true.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, this exactly.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mean to nitpick, but... There are literally fanartists who got picked up by major comics to draw based on their fanart. Fanart is commonly used in professional art portfolios when interviewing in the comics and gaming industry.

Like, a bunch of dudes on the Transformers staff used to be BNFs, and it fucking shows, because now their OCs are canon. Traditional publishing *has* changed, and the downtick in quality isn't the fault of fanfiction. If you want to lay blame somewhere, stick it at the feet of self-publishing, which encourages people to go to the presses waaaay before they're actually ready to go pro.

[(Anonymous)]

You're a lawyer, right? Please cite where OP says fanfiction can't be as good as published fiction.

[philstar22]

That's the entire gist of their secret. Fanfic used to not be good practice for "real writing" aka published writing because it didn't allow you to practice all the good things that you have to do for published writing (except, actually, it can). But now, because of self publishing and other such things, terrible real books exist that are the same quality as fanfic, so fanfic can be a practice for real writing. Nowhere in the entire secret does the OP acknowledge that there is good fanfic out there that is the quality of published writing or that such fanfic can, in fact, be good practice for published writing and can allow an author to practice all those traits the OP claimed it can't.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not a citation. The secret says "most fanfic", which is not all fanfic. As a lawyer, if a witness doesn't issue a straight up denial of [insert opinion here], does it logically follow that they believe [insert opinion here]?

I'll be honest here, I don't think you're making this argument in bad faith, but I think you're carrying some baggage on the subject that's skewing your read of the secret. You seem to be taking it personally.

[philstar22]

You know what, it is entirely possible. Not sure why it would be personal, but I'm physically sick right now and mentally not great. So it is possible I'm reading into it. That's still what it says to me. But I'm willing to agree that I might be reading into it.

[(Anonymous)]

IME, this is a sensitive topic every time it comes up. Even the suggestion that fanfiction can be low quality results in defensive replies. OP is certainly bitter, but they're not actually claiming that all fanfiction is terrible or that all published fiction is better than any fanfiction. It's simply not in the secret. OP is definitely critical of fanfiction, but that's not the same thing.

It's like when someone says they don't really care for Tony Stark or wish that the MCU didn't revolve around him so much and someone else invariably goes, omg I'm so sick of all the Tony haaaate! They're not really reacting to what's in front of them, they're reacting to some imaginary opponent inside their own head.

[philstar22]

Okay, it's possible. My brain is not functioning properly right now, so I'll take you're word for it and leave this discussion.

[(Anonymous)]

DA
It's almost as if you think you're clever. This is not a court room, and calling out an unrelated detail about someone's life is no way to make an argument. You claim that they're the one carrying baggage, but you're the one harbouring details about someones life on the off chance you can use it against them. It's not impressive.

[(Anonymous)]

Recalling public knowledge that someone's discussed many times in the forum isn't "harbouring details". I was just trying to frame it in a context that's closer to home. And it worked.

[(Anonymous)]

And yet your superior observational skills failed to notice they have also been ill for the last day or so, this is their opinion, and that this is, in fact, not their place of work. People do have lives outside their occupation.
You can try to frame it any way you like, the only person you've convinced is yourself.

I don't have a problem with you making your argument, but don't bring someone's personal matters into it just because you have a name to go with an account.

[(Anonymous)]

they were just putting their argument in a context they thought would be more understandable for who they're talking to, i don't understand the big deal. if i was arguing with someone and they started bringing up concepts from my line of work to illustrate their point i'd be delighted, your outrage is certainly not universal.

[(Anonymous)]

You've accomplished nothing other than some points scoring about something that is essentially irrelevant.

Philstar is trying to give voice to something that is not easily defined, the motives of the OP, something that is recognized by myself and at least one other person.

Let's look at your motives. Instead of asking for clarification in a forum that is based on discussion, you instead treat this like a trial. Why is it that you fail to recognize the difference between a courtroom and an open forum for discussion? You have some baggage there yourself.

And, please, capitalize. You are coming off as amateurish.

[(Anonymous)]

i'm not the anon you were arguing with which i thought was obvious with how i referred to them as "they"
als amateurish this is a fandom community who here is a professional fandom secrets user lmao jesus

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt
It's the way that they use that information as a 'one up' to their argument. They are not asking her opinion as a professional lawyer, nor are they interested in actual citations from the secret itself. It's done mockingly because they believe she misinterpreted the secret, not in good fun, nor in good taste. Otherwise they would not have said, "and it worked", as if there was actually something to be won by using her job against her.
Named users do get a lot of backlash I find on this comm otherwise I wouldn't have said anything, I know Philistar can handle herself. There seems to be a few anons on here who only to exist to antagonize them. It's why a lot of them left, or went anon themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

you know people in this comm really seem to enjoy picking the worst interpretation of things be it secrets or comments and it's very exhausting

neither me nor philistar read it like that, maybe it's not as cut and dried as you think?

[(Anonymous)]

I'll keep out of it next time.

[(Anonymous)]

That's the entire gist of their secret.

I didn't have as strong of a reaction as you did to this secret, but I agree with you about this and I don't think you're misinterpreting what the secret said. You may be focusing on a specific aspect of what it said, but you're not misinterpreting.