fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #660 ]

[ SECRET POST #660 ]

⌈ Secret Post #660 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

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103.

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104.

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105.

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106.

[Metal Gear Solid]

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107.

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108.

[Hikaru no Go]

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109.

[No Heroics]

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110.

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111.

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112.

[Invader Zim]

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113.

[Kyou Kara Maou]

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114.

[Sailor Moon]

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115.

[Ctrl+Alt+Del]

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116.

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117.

[Masterchef]

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118.

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119.

[Bleach, Ishida/Orihime]

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121.

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122.

[Naruto; Sasuke]

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123.

[Nevermind the Buzzcocks]

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124.

[Casper]

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125.

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126.

[Anne Hathaway; The Devil Wears Prada]

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127.

[Bleach]

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128.

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129.

[Princess Tutu]

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130.

[Avatar]

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131.

[Nabari no Ou]

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132.

[Priviledged]

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133.

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135.

[Avatar]

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136.

[Fringe]

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137.

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138.

[Life on Mars]

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139.

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140.

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141.

[Friends / [title of show]]

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142.

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143.

[A Bit of Fry and Laurie]

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144.

[Marquis De Sade / Von Sacher-Masoch]

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145.

[Harry Potter, Remus/Sirius]

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146.

[Metal Gear Solid, Snake/Otacon(?)]

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147.

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148.

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149.

[Harry Potter]

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150.

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151.

Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/com

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 300 secrets from Secret Submission Post #095.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - are these fandom? ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

(The following comments have not been approved by

ontogenesis, and although I am speaking as a beta, I'm not doing so on

ontogenesis's or her story's behalf.)

As the picture used is from artwork created by the original mangaka and colored by

tininess specifically for the story Desynchronisation by

ontogenesis, I feel I must weigh in. Full disclosure: I am one of the two betas, and I've been there since Day One (in fact, the story idea was first raised to me in person as we were sitting in a cafe).

Japan does not use Social Security numbers. In fact, he hasn't done anything requiring proof of identity yet.

However, my knee-jerk reaction aside, if you have specific details/instances where the story has broken realism and you think ID has to be produced no matter what, please, both of us would love to hear it.

ontogenesis takes pains to make her fic as real as possible and notes when she departs from reality, and I try my best to make sure of it, too, so if you have any concerns about the story, please, talk to either of us. We're both approachable, and I hope the HnG fandom knows our individual reactions to giving/receiving concrit (always positive).

Edited 2008-10-27 05:15 (UTC)

That piece of fanart is from some art site or google and I don't associate it with any particular story. I don't know if I've read that story because I don't remember the titles for any of the stories of that type I have read. This secret was meant for fics of that type in general, not for that particular story. Sorry for the confusion. :)

That piece of fanart is from some art site or google and I don't associate it with any particular story
Ah. For the record:
*

tininess offers to make something.
* banner picture debuts on Desynchronisation. (eta:

tininess acknowledges it here.)

So that's why I was confused. Thanks for clearing up the matter.

Hi, I did not spend half an hour looking for those links. T_T This totally proves that obsessive streak people were talking about, doesn't it?

Edited 2008-10-27 06:35 (UTC)

The version I've got hasn't got the texts, though. Hmm. It's possible that google found it from photobucket - I've certainly searched for Sai images with the image search. I don't think that I've read that story - at least all of it - because I usually avoid reading multiparts on LJ. If they are wips and not by a writer I'm familiar with, I usually lose track of them. I might have read the beginning, as it sounds vaguely familiar, but I'm not all that interested in Ogata, so it might have ended for me there.

Thanks for the links! Hopefully the person who was searching for the original image sees this comment. :)

If you don't mind, could you please let me know the search terms used? I would like to see the artist's work and to note if

tininess was credited for it.

lol

lemme get this straight. a fan colors an original artist's image and you are looking to make sure the fan artist is properly credited? is that what this obsessive need to find the original link where the secret op got their image?

....bwaaaaaahahhahahahahahahah

Ah, so you're not bothered by people passing of others' work as their own?

not when all they did was modifiy the ORIGINAL CREATORS image.

but then, you must be someone who wants their icons credited when using official art because it's such serious business.

if the artist in question had done the ENTIRE THING FROM SCRATCH, then yeah, credit where credit is due.

except...this is a fucking secrets comm. why the fuck should they be crediting where they got their stupid image?

get a life, sister.

I actually don't make icons, so I wouldn't know, but the artwork was made especially for someone else. I do believe the coloring took a lot of work, though, if the tutorials I read on

timicons are any indication.

I treat it as I would fiction. Derivative works of derivative works are fair use, IMHO, but the work itself should be credited. Everything should be traceable.

why the fuck should they be crediting where they got their stupid image
If you read again you'll realize I'm not talking about the secret, I'm talking about the secondary source. If someone on the internet is passing off

tininess's art as their own, I think she should know about it. I don't care about the use as a secret, but didn't OP say she didn't get the picture off Desynch? It was made _for_ Desynch.

Re: 108 OP

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-27 13:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

love_archived - 2008-10-27 17:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 04:37 (UTC) - Expand

I have no idea. I found it from my computer, so the google part was just an aducated guess.

In spite of my irritation with many of your comments, I have tried to avoid leaving trollish comments, but I have to say this:

I am not American, in spite of you claiming such elsewhere. They are not the only people in the world who use SSN.

I also really don't care if you are a beta for a story. I wouldn't care even if the secret had been only about that particular story. It also doesn't matter to me how well you know the author. It tells nothing of the quality of the story. If you want to make good points in your defense, I suggest using good, factual knowledge that is relevant, instead of trying to up your authority with something irrelevant. The point about Japan not having SSN was good, but if you really wanted to make your point, you should have also brought up other points relevant to the issue. For instance, I know that at least part-time workers in Japan generally get paid in cash, so I don't know how much identification they need to get a job. You could have made a point about things like that, instead of the "but I'm the beta" stuff that really has nothing to do with this. It gives a bad image of you at least to the people who don't care about the story or the people working with it, so I'd recommend that you remember that in the future. You can make a better case by providing facts and really explaining things. If you want to mention that you are the beta, use it more as a footnote than as a reason for why everything you say Must Be Right.

I was using "I'm the beta" as shorthand for "therefore I feel qualified to speak on the author's behalf", actually.

I also don't know what people consider relevant. Instead of scattershot, why not just answer questions? Besides, I don't know what people would consider a matter of course and what people would consider as very different (and therefore question the absence/presence of, in fic).

I will admit that Americans are not the only ones in the world who use Social Security numbers, but other countries don't always call them that, either. The SSN was never meant to be a national ID, though function creep has led to this.

However, since my attitude is obviously wrong, I'll just stop for now. I _will_ provide facts and explain things, but I need to know what you want explained first.

other countries don't always call them that

Of course not. However, it is a working English translation, as most cultures are somewhat familiar with the American one.

There are points to get into, if we're getting technical, since social security is not a given in all countries with national IDs. Because the secret used "SSN", I assumed they were American, merely because that's the American system. (I was probably wrong and you/OP are probably from some other country like... oh, I don't know, the UK.)

In any case--I try to make a distinction between "national ID" and "social security number", because it's that sort of conflation that led to the SSN becoming a de facto ID in the first place.

/ends pedantism

Edited 2008-10-28 06:37 (UTC)

Forgot to address the issue of part-time workers: It depends on the employer. Cash-only agreements based on nothing but a handshake can and do exist. If you work for a large company, of course, you'll have to produce taxpayer id, an address, a jyuuminhyou (residence certificate, obtained from the ward office), and other documentation as required by the large company.

Smaller business, especially those unincorporated, or a mom-and-pop sort of thing? *shrugs* Anything goes.

This is the kind of information I would have liked to see from the beginning. It shows that you do know what you are talking about and have thought about it, and are not just acting defensive and trying to come up with excuses. If you give information like this and then mention that you are a beta for the story, it speaks for the quality of the story, assuming that you don't let the author get off easy just because you know them in RL.

My irritation with many unrealistic stories comes largely from having seen too much crap where everything is Americanized, or important facts are ignored to take a shortcut to sex and cool stuff. It usually does not take too much work to address issues like that, and it is worth it. They make the story a lot more believable; it is easier to take a story seriously when it shows that the author has put some thought and effort into it instead of taking shortcuts. Even when I don't agree with their choices, I can respect the fact that they have addressed the issues, instead of just ignoring them. Most of my favorite stories for any fandom pay attention to details like that, and show knowledge of canon and the culture the story is set in. There is one particular author I like who has lived in Japan as a foreigner and inserts some really delightful details in her stories, which really enhances the feeling of being there with the characters in that very situation. It would not be possible to just paste other character and place names for a story like that and still have it work, like is the case with the more generic stuff. That is kind of the point in this whole thing for me; it frustrates me when authors ruin stories that could be (somewhat) good (or even excellent) by simply ignoring the things that would make them stand out from the mass. Everybody can write smut and teen angst; it's what everybody can't write that matters. In your case, since you clearly are well-versed in all things Japanese, I would assume that you have instructed the author of such, and it shows in the story. That is the best argument you can have for the quality of the story, but it only works if you first prove that you do know that stuff. It may be self-evident to you, but it is not to someone who's never heard of you before. Remember that for the next time something like this comes up, eh? ;)

If you give information like this and then mention that you are a beta for the story, it speaks for the quality of the story, assuming that you don't let the author get off easy just because you know them in RL.
First of all, the only point mentioned in the secret was the SSN, so I addressed the SSN issue. As I have not read any other Sai-returns story (not for lack of trying), I can't say anything in general for what people get wrong and what people don't. ^_^ Secondly, I think no one I've ever betaed would ever accuse me of being too soft--knowing the author is excuse enough for me to be really honest, and I ~~abuse~~ use that card often. (But you wouldn't know that. I'm just saying.)

[ETA: I agree with you on the "OMG THAT'S WRONG" factor. It's why I often can't read otherwise well-written stories. My suspension of disbelief only goes so far, as a reader and as a writer.]

It may be self-evident to you, but it is not to someone who's never heard of you before.
This is the piece of advice I will take away from this whole thing. I take my name-recognition for granted in my fandom, and I needed the reminder that not everyone knows who I am. Thank you.

Edited 2008-10-28 06:42 (UTC)

Well, it was just an example, as the wording in the secret should show. I was also thinking of things like getting an apartment and a job, education history, doctor's records and so on. Basically, some kind of proof that he exists.

I've tried some, but I haven't finished reading any. Fanfiction.net has a bunch of them. In one Sai dropped from a tree in front of Hikaru, I think. There was one that had a good start in that Sai showed up as a hospital patient and his records showed that he had been treated there for a long while, but I think it was in that story where god also got them an apartment, so it kind of ruined it.

I don't know if you're into Harry Potter at all, but that fandom has some *headdesk*-worthy stuff. Even basic things like "electricity does not work around magic" get ignored just so the Sueish characters can listen to their Avril (who is actually several years younger than Harry Potter). However, I saw a decent story where they researched a way to make a computer work with magic; it was actually interesting.

You're welcome. I presume (based on your icon) that your main fandom is PoT? I dropped out of it when the subs were somewhere around when Hyoutei had just showed up. I've taken some peeks since then, but I really don't get the fandom and I haven't found any long fics that have really hit it for me. It is probably a factor that I tend to prefer the less popular pairings and am more interested in character development than smut. If you know of good, long, finished stories that have more than smut in them, feel free to recommend. Something with Hyoutei might work, or less popular Seigaku combinations. I've watched most of the Nationals, so spoilers are not an issue.

I haven't read anything on FFN in a long time. *sheepish* I really should, but I don't feel like spending time wading through everything else there. At least on LJ my friends tell me about fic that's worth reading, and I watch the authors I care to read.

Re: HP, I was on the fringes a long time ago, and I haven't felt the need to go into the fandom at all. I was around when Fictionalley was becoming _the_ place to go, but I was only a reader, and I read VERY few stories. (That was back when I was a high school student and actually had time to read...) I think I only cared about one (the Psychic Serpent trilogy, by Barb.) Never really found anything else since then (except Transfigurations). The fics that really push the "what is magic" and explore the magical properties of the HP world were the ones I cared about, but I will be the first to admit you could fit the titles of all the HP fics I've read into one of LJ's comment boxes, and still have room enough for a drabble without scrolling.

I presume (based on your icon) that your main fandom is PoT?
It's a fair presumption! I think I'm actually more well-known in Hikaru no Go, which is another reason why I leapt to the assumption that you knew who I was. (Knowing most of the authors does not mean being known by most of the readers, but it's hard to remember this when I've not had to introduce myself in a long time.) I actually don't read very much myself, nowadays, because I'm a little swamped. (I also tend to specialize in Seigaku, Tezuka in particular, so eventually everything starts to sound the same.)

As for a rec... here, a current one. If you haven't seen

subrosa_tennis yet, I strongly recommend you do. This round we have some VERY strong fics. As co-mod, I am very pleased with this round's "harvest" overall. ^_^ (There _are_ some fics I just can't get into, but I think that holds true everywhere...)

I also recommend

goldenagefic, which has a lot of Hikago as well as PoT.

The character search is good for finding less popular pairings. You'll still end up with lots of crap, but there's sometimes a gem or two to be found. It doesn't help with gen stuff or more popular pairings, though. It's probably safer to go through recs. There are a couple of really good HikaGo fics there; I can think of three at the moment. Two of them were wips the last time I saw them and somewhat AU; a different take on the canon events. The finished one was one where Hikaru died and showed up as a ghost during a stormy night at Akira's door. I can't remember the title, but my male friend who never reads fanfiction (and somewhat resembles House in his commentary) loved the story when I made him read it, and that tells a lot. It's probably THE fic for me in the HikaGo fandom and I found it on ffnet. In general I prefer reading fics on series-specific archives or the author's personal website, as long as they have some understanding of readable colours vs. something a hippie on crack designed. I prefer archives like this (http://www.athenewolfe.com/justrewards/index.php), though; ones that have the option of opening the story chapter by chapter or as a full story.

Fictionalley = fanfiction.net part 2, in my opinion. It may have occasional good stories, but most of the stuff is as much crap as most of the stuff on ffnet. With big fandoms like HP recs are really the way to go, until you find some authors whose work you like. Never read the Psychic Serpent, but Transfigurations is one of the better H/D ones. I find this website (http://partial-eclipse.net/lists/index.html) helpful when trying to find fics with a particular theme. Some of the stuff linked is crap, but there's also good stuff, and the classifications help a lot in trying to find something that might interest you.

I don't really read that much HikaGo fic, as there's generally not much good, long, finished gen to be found (or I look in the wrong places), and I tend to stay away from HikaAki/AkiHika after seeing so much OOC stuff. I'd like to see some decent Meijin/Sai for a change.

Thanks for the links. :)

Re: 108 OP

love_archived - 2008-10-28 08:02 (UTC) - Expand

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love_archived - 2008-10-28 08:08 (UTC) - Expand

108 OP

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 08:44 (UTC) - Expand

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love_archived - 2008-10-28 08:47 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 09:03 (UTC) - Expand

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love_archived - 2008-10-28 09:10 (UTC) - Expand

Different Anon

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 12:45 (UTC) - Expand

getting an apartment and a job, education history, doctor's records
*facepalms* No way Sai could get an apartment on his own with no ID. *just got one of her own in September* Sai couldn't afford it either, not without help or some independent wealth. You have to pay far too much money upfront. I paid almost half a year's rent to move here!

Job - depends on the employer. Same reasons I mentioned before. ^_^

Education - Sai would have no use for it... until he was asked for it. Often, though, one can get by with a fake certificate. See how many politicians in the Western world have been exposed as fakes because they never attended Harvard or some other big name school, but had the certificates or just told everyone they did... (why are the only examples I can even _vaguely_ recall all American?)

Doctor's records - you make a new set of records when you go to a new place. As long as you have health insurance, no one asks questions. Even when you don't have health insurance, people will take you as long as you have cash. (Though of course, the flexibility, again, depends on the size of the institution... again, small places don't have the luxury of insisting on bureaucracy.) ETA: I can't remember if _everyone_ produces ID. If you go on private arrangement, however, anything is possible.

Edited 2008-10-28 07:34 (UTC)

Interesting. What if he and Hikaru got one together? Could they do it officially or would Hikaru have to take care of everything on his own? As in, Sai officially living there on paper, instead of just staying in Hikaru's apartment. Where I live, you generally have to change the contract when a second person moves in, although I guess it would be possible to keep it in only one person's name, if they don't mind taking all the responsibility for missing rent and possible damage.

I don't know about Japan, but here people would be suspicious of hiring someone with no educational background. Faking documents might work, as I doubt that most check them for authentity. If he were to become a pro go player, he likely wouldn't need even them.

Ah, I forgot about that. I guess they could claim that he had lived someplace else. I think that here they often like to request the files from the previous place of residence, although I don't know if that is always the case. I'm pretty sure they did that with my dentist's records at least.

Re: 108 OP

love_archived - 2008-10-28 08:29 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 09:01 (UTC) - Expand

108 OP

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 09:06 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

love_archived - 2008-10-28 09:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

love_archived - 2008-10-28 09:09 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

(Anonymous) - 2008-10-28 09:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 108 OP

love_archived - 2008-10-28 09:50 (UTC) - Expand

I saw a decent story where they researched a way to make a computer work with magic
I am VERY interested. Link?

Sorry, I can't remember. It was after they had graduated, though, and the focus of the story was on something else.

I'm the other beta for the fic in question.

I'm just replying to this to let you know that not only do the both of us live and work in Japan, so does the author. Part of the reason the SSN question annoyed us in particular was because it was a show of trying to criticize the story when the question itself displayed ignorance and a very western-centric pov.

I feel the same way you do about stories, so if I see a problem with that I am usually the first to point that out. The author is extremely meticulous with her research though, so usually that's not one of the things I have to correct her on.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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