[ SECRET POST #4706 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4706 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #674.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/kR1HO7b.png

[morieris]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Idk. I kind of see where it comes from when there are entire genres where you can't exactly avoid the HBO-style constant in your face nudity and rape. I like fantasy and I like science fiction with advanced artificial intelligence, but they're only really making the porno versions of those stories right now.

I think a lot of women are interested in those genres and like the general idea of the shows but find the execution really off-putting.

I've been sucked in a few times by plot before it becomes clear that the writing is terrible and they're relying on tits and shock deaths to keep people around.

It does bring up questions about why I enjoy these genres or want to watch these shows, and what that says about me. I wonder where I draw the line, and I wonder why there are almost no adult shows that aren't like this, and what that says about the current culture.

[(Anonymous)]

I really love when people are conscious of the potentially ~problematic~ elements in things they like. I think where it becomes frustrating to me is when people are like, “I guess this makes me a bad feminist!” because that really does feminism a disservice. Yes, some people treat feminism like a dogma, but it’s really not, and most people don’t treat it that way. So no, liking a piece of media with potentially unfeminist elements does not make you a bad feminist.

[(Anonymous)]

Skeptical of anyone who uses the words virtue signaling

[(Anonymous)]

Why?

[(Anonymous)]

da

It's a buzzword "gotcha!" used by anti-progressives who think the status quo is perfect and if you think anything is wrong with it then you're a sensitive little baby who can't handle the "real world."

[(Anonymous)]

Ok but like... people engage in this type of performative wokeness. It's a thing that happens. What do you suggest we call it.

[(Anonymous)]

Performative wokeness would be a better term than virtue signaling

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

I think they're both good terms. Just because one's been overused by an obnoxious vocal minority doesn't mean everyone's got to avoid it forever. It just means people have to read more carefully to figure out what the context is.

[(Anonymous)]

da

That's not how communication works. Obviously, anyone can use any terminology they'd like. But if you're expecting people to critically analyze your online writing to make sure they get the specific nuance you were going for, then you are going to be sadly disappointed. The most commonly accepted meaning of the phrase will be the one that readers will assign to it. It's up to you, as the person communicating, to either use words that convey your meaning unambiguously or deal with the consequences of being misunderstood.

[(Anonymous)]

One, I don't think it's actually that easy to disentangle a term from its use by an obnoxious vocal minority.

But more importantly, two, I think there are good, substantive reasons to prefer something like "performative wokeness" over "virtue signalling." Performative wokeness is much more specific and bounded. It refers to a specific subset of people - people with a specific type of view who are advancing it in a performative way - and no one else.

By contrast, virtue signalling is really all-embracing. I mean, on some philosophical level, you can cast doubt on anyone's motivation in taking any kind of virtuous action. So it's all-encompassing in a real cynical way. But it's also only really ever used against one specific group of people despite the fact that there's no particular reason that the behavior should be distinctive to that group of people. So ultimately, it ends up implying that a certain sort of view is disproportionately held for cynical reasons - it ends up being an argument against that view and not against people doing it performatiely.

[(Anonymous)]

+100000000

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT—yeah, I never see “virtue signaling” used to describe people who protest outside abortion clinics turning around and getting abortions themselves, or republicans who harp on “family values” paying hush money to prostitutes. I know the phrase isn’t describing hypocrisy so much as insinuating that a person’s “wokeness” is insincere, but I like “performative wokeness” because it allows for a person just being obnoxious about something they genuinely believe, but virtue signaling fits right-wing hypocrisy a lot better than left-wing loud wokeness.

[(Anonymous)]

So what happens to me, personally and without fail, is that I get really into things that are considered problematic from a feminist standpoint. And I get all excited and try to find other fans and inevitably get hit with the brick wall of Feminist Discourse. Which is fine, people have their opinions, and they can express them freely, but it does tend to make go, "well, shit, if this thing I enjoy is un-feminist, then fuck feminism tbh." I'm too old and tired to spend my time apologizing to the internets for liking rapey stuff.

Anyway, this is a slightly different reaction from what you're talking about, but I can understand the hand-wringing because the discourse is just everywhere and unavoidable and can be hard not to internalize if you haven't just given up entirely.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see how watching something problematic can make you a bad feminist at all. Like are all feminists forbidden to watch movies under the Hays Code, just in case they might enjoy one or see something that goes against their morales? Or pretty much any action movie for that matter? I really can't wrap my head around it.
Citizen Kane is noted to be the greatest movie ever made, and most of that is due to the revolutionary cinematography and revelation of 'Rosebud'. There's no one thing to judge a piece of media on, and you can very much enjoy a movie despite disagreeing with the way they treat certain characters, or beliefs. You can get into more uncertain territories like with GoT, but enjoying the scenery and the battles between kingdoms doesn't mean you approve of all the unnecessary sex scenes/rape. No show can be faultless, there are always going to be things that rub people the wrong way.

Of course there are times where the more unsavoury themes outweigh what makes a show worth watching, but that is only a line of personal taste. Media is almost synonymous with escape, to forget about life for a while, and it's not some sort of secret test every time.

I think you're probably underestimating the sheer amount of anxiety a lot of people deal with.

[(Anonymous)]

I know it's extremely easy for me to get hung up on something stupid and worry way too much about it - (Should I use an exclamation point in this message? If I just use a period, does it seem like I don't really mean it? They used a heart. Should I use a heart or a smiley face? And on, and on.).

Sometimes you start out apologizing for liking something because you've already seen discourse about it and are worried people on the internet will call you terrible names or lecture you like you're a four-year-old who just said a bad word.

[(Anonymous)]

Just enjoy what you enjoy, damn.