[ SECRET POST #673 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #673 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 14 pages, 348 secrets from Secret Submission Post #096.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ronsard.livejournal.com]

But the people fighting Prop 8 are fighting for same-sex marriage to be accepted by the government, so that same-sex couples can have the same legal benefits enjoyed by opposite-sex couples. They are not fighting for gay marriage to be accepted in the eye of the church, and I'd like to think this is where the line could be drawn for now.

In any case, if the right to religion can be used as an excuse to oppose same-sex marriage, I'm curious as to how a person who believes this can still reconcile their beliefs with, say, being a fan of slash. Doesn't that mean that on some intellectual level, you can accept it as right and natural - and yet still oppose it?

[(Anonymous)]

Excuse me, but I'm just going to copy-paste some bits of what other people said and put it as my own, because I lack eloquence on such an issue.

IFILL: The next round of -- pardon me, the next round of questions starts with you, Sen. Biden. Do you support, as they do in Alaska, granting same-sex benefits to couples?

BIDEN: Absolutely. Do I support granting same-sex benefits? Absolutely positively. Look, in an Obama-Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple.

The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution we should be granted -- same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That's only fair.

It's what the Constitution calls for. And so we do support it. We do support making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights, their rights of visitation, their rights to insurance, their rights of ownership as heterosexual couples do.

IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.



I agree with this view.
I do, however, realize that the supreme court has made this a legal issue, and that the argument to this point of view would be "well won't you prefer to have everyone equal as opposed to suppressed in the constitution?"

And you're right, as a fan of slash I disregard gender and focus on the characters. I write yaoi, yuri, het - pretty much anything that two characters can do with each other. So yes, I believe it is natural. I believe love between two people is natural. And yet I'm still yes on the principal of religion, because I do think marriage should be a religious issue, and that if forced into a legal issue I'd rather have marriage be defined between a man and woman and protect church definition of marriage than legalize gay marriage.

It's not a popular view, but it is mine.

Someone would then say "don't you care about your homosexual friends?"
And the only thing I could respond with is, I do. And I care about my religious friends, too. I'm tired. I'm tired of arguing to the point where I want to give up and just say "whatever you voted!" to whoever asks. But I realize that when deciding this issue, I cannot let friendship get in the way of my point of view because there IS no "acceptable" view. because I shouldn't be forced into an "acceptable" view.

[kristenell.livejournal.com]

My only problem with that, is that marriage is a civil institution and civil unions don't offer the same protections and legal status as marriage. SO they are unequal.

As it was said before, church's are not going to be forced to marry anybody, and it doesn't affect you. It does however affect us. And what of the churches that want to marry gay people? They can't do that? Why is the government even operating under a religious mantle. There is a separation between church and state in this country. That is a two way street the government doesn't tell the church what to do, and the church does not tell the government what to do.

Marriage started as and still is a civil institution.

Also Joe Biden's and Barack Obama's stances are there to save their political asses. Their positions are hypocritical and idiotic.

[ronsard.livejournal.com]

Well, let's make it clear that Biden, and whoever else in his position for that matter, probably felt he had to say that or risk losing his party the election. He may actually believe in what he said, for all we know, but this point stands regarding the state of politics in our country.

As for what we've been talking about, well, I'm starting to think that, for a lot of people, this entire debate comes down to, "I'm not against homosexuality. I believe people have the right to be whoever they were born to be. However, I do not support same-sex marriage, because in the eye of the church, marriage is defined as strictly between a man and a woman."

I can see how that could be. And I can see how someone who is in this position would have a lot to lose on both sides. However, I also believe in the separation of church and state, and for me, this means that government-sanctioned and church-sanctioned marriage should not receive the same treatment. The church already has the right to turn away any form of marriages believed not to be acceptable in the eye of God, but the government should grant equal rights to all because that is the law.

Those of us fighting Proposition 8 understand that we cannot win the approval of the church for same-sex marriage, at least not in this fight. But we recognize that legal benefits enjoyed by same-sex couples have been been taken away with the passing of Prop 8, and that, to me, is unconstitutional. Since I believe that allowing government-sanctioned marriage for same-sex couples in no way forces the church to change its view on the institution of marriage, I cannot support the decision of those who use religious grounds as reasons to deny others their government-granted civil rights.

But in the end, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I hope that you will find some way to reconcile your beliefs with your friends on both sides of the battle, though I'm really afraid that's not possible unless you do make some effort to change your point of view.