Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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fandomsecrets2020-01-26 03:45 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2020-01-26 03:45 pm
[ SECRET POST #4769 ]
⌈ Secret Post #4769 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 37 secrets from Secret Submission Post #683.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 02:50 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 03:31 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 03:54 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 08:38 am (UTC)(link)Just to add my two-cents in here, apart from the original series, there just isn't such a thing as 'core Star Trek values'. Every incantation that came after TOS is just a modernized interpretation written to be popular by people who generally stood against what the original series intended. That being, more or less, hope and equality.
Disco was generally fine until they called in existing characters which they then entirely shit on. (along with their timelines) I hear people saying it was bad because it dealt with turbulence and warfare, which is just bullshit. DS9's entire plot revolves around war and comeuppance. People like O'Brien get away with blatant racism all the time, in fact it's encourage, and the episodes they go back to Earth are so military focused it's like it's meant to be an advertisement to get people to join the US army. But still it's considered one of the best Star Treks around. A 'true' Star Trek? Absolutely not...
I'll agree that going back in time and trying to recapture the heart of Star Trek is a big mistake for a newer show to try at. Mostly due to the aging values the more popular shows, (like TNG, and most that came after it) represent. TOS characters are basically off limits because any time someone tries to touch them, they try to include popular tropes, or the parodies that replaced them**, rather than the actual character and who they are/were. It all ends up in nothing but disaster, and yet we see it failing, time and time again.
The original meaning of the show was lost and forgotten the second TOS went off the air. (We see it in in those radio broadcasts that do nothing but mock and insult the original series**), and yet are more relevant in Star Trek today with their shitty jokes and catchphrases. (Beam me up Scotty, I'm a doctor, not a --, etc..)
TNG bounced on the popularity Star Wars had going for it, and rearranged it's beliefs in order to appeal the broadest market the could find. Every other show after TNG did much of the same thing. Racism and sexism are core components you'll find in the continuous universe. Something very prevalent in every other incarnation
** The radio broadcast was uploaded to 8tracks a while back. I forgot it had closed recently, and while I'm still looking for a link of some kind, I'm not having much luck.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 09:09 am (UTC)(link)I will remember that when watching the ep when half the crew got kidnapped by super-powerful brains and forced to fight in gladiatorial arenas and Kirk gets flogged.
Or when the green slave girls turn up again.
Or "Miri", when one of the themes of the ep was about a 13-year-old-going-on-300's crush on Kirk.
Or the time Spock's brain got stolen.
Or the one where Roddenberry wanted the final moral to be that women were fundamentally, temperamentally inappropriate as starship captains (I think he got overruled, that time.)
Look - there was a lot of aspirational writing in there. But there was a helluva lot of lurid, and a lot of social conventions that are... distinctly awkward when viewed today.
It was mentioned in the discussion of Doctor Who today - mostly people remember the bits that made them happy and forget the awkwardness, and whenever something new comes along it can never measure up with someone's selective happy memories. Just. Take a breath. Remind yourself that it's okay for things to be different.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 10:37 am (UTC)(link)The super powerful brain episode included the first interracial kiss on television, if I remember correctly.
The 'green slave girl' was a character in the original pilot. With Pike as Capitan of the Enterprise. It was rejected, and nearly ended Star Trek before it even began. The character reappears as in 'The Menagerie' as reference to the original pilot. She's is not used in any way to condone slavery nor does the show give any implication/support of that.
You have to be kidding about Miri. Like seriously. Kirk and crew arrive to investigate an automatic distress call, what they find are children, hostile, and with no adults anywhere to be found. Upon investigating they find Miri, a leader of sorts for one of the child gangs, she develops a crush on Kirk discovering he's not going to try to hurt her, and wants to help. She may be 300 or so years old, but due to what happened on her planet, she like any other inhabitant simple ages at a very slow rate. The episode was banned by the BBC for it's depiction of a post-apocalyptic setting. It's an extremely good episode.
And when Spock got his brain stolen? Really?
Have you even watched the show, or are you just listing random information you found searching for 'the least possible problematic things about TOS' on google? There's a lot of pop knowledge for this particular series that is based in utter lies, but nothing of what you say means pretty much anything.
I want references for the Gene comment, btw. The show was the first to allow not just a black person, but a black /woman/ into an integral role of command. He was all for equality, and made sure there were plenty of woman crew members/heads of society a plenty. People joke about the high skirts, but it was the actresses choice on how high/low they wanted to wear them. You see woman walking around the ship with pants on as well. Nichols wore her skirt high because it was the sixties, woman empowerment was all around.
Don't confuse that with Seven of Nine's purposeless spandex suit, or the shit Jadzia's actress had to go through and eventually left the show over.
Star Trek was revolutionary for it's time, it was campy, it was fun, it had more than your fair share of Greek/Romanic deities included in it, But the joke it eventually became is no way to fairly judge the actual material.
Fun fact, I was the one who wrote that comment on the DW secret. The difference is that I own the box set for this show, I can cross reference the episodes any time I want. They exist.
I'm not gatekeeping, or trying to sabotage someone else's enjoyment, I'm just stating that it's hard, if not impossible to pinpoint exactly what 'true' Trek even means. Every spinoff from the original series is it's own take, and for a long time, an accepted part of Trek itself. It's only these new shows that nobody wants to give a credible chance because they don't suit their imagined ideal of what Star Trek should be.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 12:50 pm (UTC)(link)One of those blind spots carried through to the TNG era is that the Federation has a limited view of personhood, so the Federation frequently falls short on its commitment to recognize and respect non-humanoid intelligence. The opening of Picard follows directly from "The Offspring," which punted on whether Data could have parental rights by killing off Lal, and "Author, Author," which ended on a cliffhanger of synthetics sharing the EMH's novel and politics.
For the Federation to have blind spots and for Picard to act as a man of conscience is entirely in the tradition of both TOS and TNG. Spock and Kirk both disobeyed orders as a matter of conscience, and Picard previously acknowledged that he was willing to get thrown out of Starfleet over the issue of synthetic rights. I don't see how the Dunkirk speech of Picard is all that different from Kirk's speeches about humanism, birth control, affirmative consent, and racism.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-28 07:58 am (UTC)(link)The first interracial kiss was in "Plato's Stepchildren".
"And when Spock got his brain stolen? Really?"
The episode is literally. called. "Spock's Brain".
I was thinking of Marta, the green, scantily dressed sex-kitten from "Whom The Gods Destroy" actually. But yes, Vina spends some time green and nearly naked in the pilot, too.
"Star Trek was revolutionary for it's time, it was campy, it was fun, it had more than your fair share of Greek/Romanic deities included in it, But the joke it eventually became is no way to fairly judge the actual material."
I can agree, wholeheartedly, that it was revolutionary for its time. But the plot of the very first episode was: "aliens kidnap them and want them to have sex." It never fell into campy; it was always campy. It was always a joke.
You sure sound like you're gatekeeping. On inaccurate information, no less. *rolls eyes*
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 12:16 pm (UTC)(link)You mention the first interracial kiss in TOS, well DS9 has the first homosexual kiss.
Just, the idea that only TOS had these themes is so ludicrous to me. That's the kind of thing that was only being said by fans way back in the early seasons of TNG when people just weren't sure about it yet.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 01:18 pm (UTC)(link)Disco does a lot better at equality than DS9 does, that's just a fact.
The kiss in DS9 is nowhere close to being of the same significance as the kiss between Uhura and Kirk.
In TOS the kiss was essentially done off script, it happened because the layout of the scene made it clear what they were supposed to do. They went along with the shot despite getting criticism not to, it's the first actual interracial kiss that aired on television.
DS9 was not the first gay, or even lesbian kiss on air. They created the entire episode to make that one moment happen, and they couldn't even be bothered to do it right. The 'rules' of the symbiont's and the host's relationships with one another was convoluted and nonsensical. Jadzia was yet again thrown to the side lines because Dax's was horny for a past /heterosexual/ lover. The rule that two hosts are allowed to become intimate, but never see each other again once they change hosts is just plain stupid. And we're supposed to believe that the host of a symbiont who was once involved in an intimate relationship with Dax just shows up despite there being laws that discourage this. She pursues Jadzia despite her protests against it, and essentially forces Jadzia to acknowledge their feelings for each other. Feelings between the symbiont's from a past encounter, not any kind of relationship Jadzia might have had with the other host.
It's not so much that the other series didn't have them, but that they were taken in their own very unique ways.
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(Anonymous) 2020-01-27 01:46 pm (UTC)(link)