[ SECRET POST #4780 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4780 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 16 secrets from Secret Submission Post #683.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/e1NnSh3.png

[(Anonymous)]

I definitely get this and tend to feel the same.

Sexism is an ever-present issue for me when it’s a jerk guy/woman pairing. Even when the guy himself isn’t all that sexist, there’s inherent sexism in the fact that he can be the way he is, and do the shit he does, and say the shit he says, and treat people (including her) the way he does, and get away with it all. And meanwhile she’s almost always tasked with being the straight man and the professional and the responsible one who cares about the rules for both of them.

Like, that same dynamic isn’t really okay when it’s M/M, but it doesn’t feel nearly as tied into systemic bullshit as it does when it’s M/F.

Though for the record, I do ship some het ships like this anyway, despite my problems with them. I can just handle far more extreme versions when it’s M/M. Like, Mulder/Scully very much has elements of this and they’re a huge OTP for me. But I don’t think I would’ve been able to enjoy Johnlock (BBC version) if John had been female.

[(Anonymous)]

I very much enjoyed Joan and Sherlock's friendship in Elementary and I know some people shipped it, but while this Sherlock was obnoxious (not sure you can have a Sherlock Holmes that isn't), he also had this streak of sweetness that tempered it somewhat.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't ship it, but I very much appreciate that Sherlock's obnoxiousness is tempered by the fact that he's very obviously trying to better himself and that he takes correction graciously and respectfully, as you would expect an intelligent, compassionate person who cares about his partner to do, but almost never see in mainstream media.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - Yeah, I definitely think Elementary is a completely different animal. I only watched a bit of it and it was never really my thing, but he seemed like he was a much more benign form of "absolute nightmare" than BBC's Sherlock. And Joan seemed a lot healthier within herself, too, even compared to early seasons John. So their relationship ultimately felt fairly healthy and constructive.

As far as chaotic/obnoxious man with stable, responsible woman pairings go, it was pretty mild and positive.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed to all of this.

[(Anonymous)]

i personally don't like obnoxious male characters in ANY pairing, but i get why it'd be easier to take with m/m as opposed to m/f because with m/m you can at least avoid the depressingly common societal sexist baggage where women are expected to mother/parent their male partners and put up with all their shitty/selfish behavior because their love 'makes up for it'.

i'd still rather drop-kick all those male characters off a cliff however, much more fun to imagine.

Is it better or worse if they are both obnoxious?

[(Anonymous)]

Just curious.

Re: Is it better or worse if they are both obnoxious?

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP, but that just sounds way too chaotic for me, from a story-telling perspective. I can't even really imagine the dynamic there. Which isn't really a criticism so much as just an observation.

Do you have any examples of this pairing type?

Re: Is it better or worse if they are both obnoxious?

[feotakahari]

This seems relevant: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BelligerentSexualTension

Re: Is it better or worse if they are both obnoxious?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - Yeah, I don't think this is a dynamic I like at all. I think I maybe liked it when I was much younger, but these days this sounds like the kind of thing that makes me violently roll my eyes and groan and proclaim to the TV, "Oh my god, can we just NOT? Please?"

Though this trope is also very much not synonymous with obnoxious/obnoxious ships. I mean, the example TV Tropes cites is Han/Leia - a pairing I do dislike - but Leia is not remotely the obnoxious character type.

Han/Lando, I guess, might be kind of close to a mutually obnoxious pairing? And it does sound more appealing to me than Han/Leia, but still not something I'd be interested in.

Re: Is it better or worse if they are both obnoxious?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Well, actually the image used is a good example, I think - Sam/Dean (Supernatural).

But also - Loki/Tony Stark & Tony Stark/Stephen Strange (Marvel Cinematic Universe), Steve/Danny (Hawaii Five-0), Arthur/Merlin (Merlin), Tony/Gibbs (NCIS), John/Rodney (Stargate Atlantis), etc.

I mean, they each tend to be obnoxious in at least slightly different ways, but both are.

Re: Is it better or worse if they are both obnoxious?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't find most of those characters obnoxious, really, so I don't really know how to respond.

Arthur/Merlin didn't seem that way at all, in the episodes I watched. Gibbs didn't seem that way, though Tony somewhat did. I don't know John/Rodney or Steve/Danny at all.

The one I can see fitting the obnoxious/obnoxious dynamic the most is Tony/Stephen, and that's probably part of why it's completely uninteresting to me. They're just way too similar for my liking, and their flaws are way too similar. To me, that's boring.