[ SECRET POST #4787 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4787⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #685.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/Wx2glAy.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I think in her case that she finds it empowering to control how she is sexualized as well as romanticizing being a bigger woman through the gaze of enjoying/owning herself vs. needing a romantic partner's approval to do so.

[(Anonymous)]

All you're doing is making a case for "men should be doing this, too" honestly

[greghousesgf]

well, why not?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not totally sure they aren't

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. It originally comes from costume designers purposefully putting women in the skimpiest outfit they can manage because it's hot for the most part. I mean it's fine to own that image, and I suppose it's good that a heavier set woman is confident enough to do so as well, but I would not call it empowering at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, whether or not it's empowering depends on the person doing it, doesn't it? If you feel empowered wearing lingerie on stage, awesome. If you don't, then you're not. Someone might feel really powerful shedding off those layers and rocking it. Someone else might feel uncomfortable with it, as though they were obligated because "sex sells" or otherwise feel nothing at all.

General yes that men should also feel free to wear lingerie on stage though. :)

[(Anonymous)]

This exactly! Different things feel empowering to different people. Are some women being sold a line about lingerie being empowering simply because audiences want to see them wearing lingerie? Yeah, absolutely. But in Lizzo's case specifically, it feels genuine-- both fat women and darker skinned women get the message that they are not as desirable as thinner/lighter girls are, that they aren't beautiful ('pretty for a big/dark girl', anyone?), that if they ARE sexy, it's as a fetish or it's in a specific way dictated by society... Being beautiful and sexy in soft, romantic white lingerie becomes empowering when you're told that's something for other girls, girls you don't look like.

Of course, not all women would feel empowered wearing lingerie on stage even so, but some feel empowered wearing lingerie at home with a partner who validates how she owns and presents her sexiness, and some feel empowered wearing lingerie at home with no one at all, just for themselves. It feels empowering to take and own something you've been told isn't for you, and sometimes pretty lingerie actually IS that thing. Different women have different experiences.

Also, big yes to men also feeling empowered by rocking some lingerie. (and hey, some do-- ever been to a Rocky Horror night?)

[(Anonymous)]

Totally agree!

[philstar22]

This is complicated to me when it comes to her. Because on the one hand, I completely agree. But on the other hand, it is nice that it is for once a fat woman being sexualized and seen as an attractive and sexy woman. But on the other hand, woman shouldn't have to be sexy to sell music. But on the other hand, this is what she wants to be and there is nothing wrong with wanting to be sexy.

So not sure how I feel honestly.

[(Anonymous)]

This is why liberal feminism is bullshit. What's empowering is to feel that you are a human being who has worth simply because you exist and hopefully are a good person. Self-confidence comes from the inside. External validation is not confidence.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean. Is it required that you have to find it empowering? Isn't empowerment by definition subjective and variable?

[(Anonymous)]

at least wear a corset that *fits*. I want to get in there and lace her up into something sexy and fun and empowering that doesn't look like it's about to slide off her. let me build you a fitting corset, fine musician lady.

[philstar22]

I know, right? I'm a fat woman who loves a corset. That is not a good corset.

[(Anonymous)]

I’m not even that good a seamstress and I agree; she makes enough money that a custom fitted corset wouldn’t break the bank, and would look way better.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, feelings of empowerment (especially when it comes to clothing) are pretty personal.

If you're onstage in lingerie because it makes you feel sexy and powerful, that's empowering.

If you're onstage in lingerie because your manager or PR team says you should be... then obviously that's not empowering.

Also, 100% behind more men in lingerie.

[philstar22]

Yes to more men in lingerie. Lingerie and heels.

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't understand wearing a corset with inbuilt suspender belts but not wearing stockings. Are they just flying about as she moves? I don't get it. Put some stockings on or take the suspenders off.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, if she likes it and wants to make a point that woman are still sexy/beautiful if they're fat and dark skinned even tho a lot of mainstream media wants to say that is NOT true then good for her. But yeah I'm also here for men in lingerie on stage.

Mostly I've just got a super massive crush on Lizzo and am happy to see her in lingerie

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't realize that we had to use what men do to decide what empowers us...

[meadowphoenix]

if you mean empowered in a feminist way, of course she's not. i get that marginalized intersections of women want to be treated as non-marginalized women but that's not going to liberate any women from the female marginalization.

if you mean empowered in a fat-positive way, well... im not the one to talk to about this, but if this is leading to fat liberation than i support it in that vein.

if you mean empowered as just like a feeling and this is not a claim to any wider movement? who cares? it's a feeling! let her feel powerful!

[(Anonymous)]

Lizzo is not a good example, because there is an added factor of her being the size which has not been traditionally considered as desireable, so her broadening the scope of what's considered sexy and desireable can be empowering for people who feel themselves represented by her. So there's some kind of empowerment for some here.

The problem is that empowerment is complicated and often personal, rather than objective in any broad sense. For example, I'm generally in for the version of feminism that basically boils down to wear what you like, present as you like, what empowers you is empowering, but I also do think that the fact that there seems to be a half-naked blueprint for popstars to follow is just adding to the opressive social pressure of "being a desireable woman means being very sexualised and made-up" (just as the fact that all pictures, both in the press and on instagram, get photoshoped, and even films&videos are put through filter, and there's only a very limited amount of wrinkles that a woman over 40 is allowed to have...etc.). I mean, we should do what we like in your own life, because being a woman is complicated enough without us policing each other even more thoroughly, but no, I don't think that being sexy, beautiful and half-naked on stage is terribly empowering for women in general, even when it is done in a mildly transgressive way, e.g. by a woman older than the norm (JLo?) or larger than the norm (Lizzo).

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really understand why there has to be one answer to whether doing X is empowering/feminist/progressive/etc. or not.

Wearing lingerie in general: not progressive.
Tying women's worth to whether they are perceived as beautiful: not progressive.
Defining black women as beautiful: progressive around the edges due to historical racism and devaluations of black people's looks.
Defining fat women as beautiful: progressive around the edges due to historical fat-shaming.

I think people look at that and are like, "Feminism is so inconsistent! Why doesn't it actually have principles?!" and it's like... because feminism is responding to a world where race, body type, and gender (among many other things: class, sexuality, disability, age, etc. etc.) all interact in complicated ways to make it so that gender-based oppression doesn't affect people equally in the same way? Why is there any reason to expect that the question "wearing lingerie: empowering y/n?" has a single simple "Y" or "N" answer and the answer wouldn't change based on the context and the specific case? It's a logical fallacy to apply the answer to a large question ("is dancing around in lingerie a behavior that's empowering for women") to every single case of a woman dancing around in lingerie and be like, well if the general answer says it's not progressive, every single instance of it must not be progressive as well.

[(Anonymous)]

Women in general feel empowered through their feminity and looking sexy. In this case it doesn't work because she isn't looking too good wearing that, but another type of woman probably would.