fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4856 ]

[ SECRET POST #4856 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4856 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #694.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I love it because otherwise you might as well be writing a fluffy modern AU. Ignoring history is basically the same as erasing it to me, you don't have to go like full shitbag about it, but removing that part of society, especially when it would affect the characters/setting noticeably just bothers me to some degree. It plays both as a means to completely take the authenticity and me out of the story, but also to continue the recent opinion in fandom that nothing bad can happen ever, something I am very much not a fan of... at all.

So to each their own, but I find removing things that are canon/period typical to be very distracting/problematic.

People are still shitty today, though. Modern times are not automatically better for LGBT people, so ANY time period wherein it's not a thing is inherently a fluffy AU, by your logic.

ayrt

That's why I mentioned a 'fluffy' modern AU, aka the kind where the world is perfect and everyone's friends with everybody on intstagram. Yes, times are still shitty, things will never be perfect, and some places are worse than others, but certainly not to the degree of places during the AIDS crisis times when getting caught with someone of the same sex meant a death sentence by law.

Don't be purposefully obtuse just so you can talk OT politics. Read the comment in full before responding, thanks.

History was not nonstop death sentences for infidels and homos, believe it or fucking not.

ayrt

No shit.

but certainly not to the degree of places during the AIDS crisis times when getting caught with someone of the same sex meant a death sentence by law.

Wait, are you referring to AIDS itself as a death sentence, or do you really think most developed countries were executing people for being gay in the 1980s and 90s??

ayrt

,*

I meant the homophobia surrounding the AIDS crisis, and the threat of living out who you are when it was illegal. Acknowledging that there are various times in history, both in recent years and not. It's why I used the phrasing "getting caught with", so no, that is not what I meant.

ayrt

OK but "getting caught with someone of the same sex meant a death sentence by law" sounds like it means, well, that a death sentence is the law.

ayrt

So I was checking back and apparently this non-argument isn't even over yet?

Have you heard of the Holocaust? Being gay was a death sentence. Keep up.

Yes, things are still shitty today. But if you live in pretty much any first world country today, you won't be institutionally killed, thrown in prison, or shunned by your entire society for being gay. Also, in most first world societies, you can choose to be openly gay. People may be assholes to you about it, but in most situations they can't actually stop you from being openly, even demonstrably gay in public.

Let's not compare the days of "No one can ever have a modicum of proof about us, or we'll be utterly ostracized and very possibly thrown in prison" with the homophobia most people face today. Is it still bad? Yes. But it's not "the closet is the only option, across the board" the way it used to be.

And there are plenty of historical time periods and places where sure, being out and loud and proud was not an option, but nor was it a death sentence. People have been happily gay for fucking ages. We even have first hand accounts like Anne Lister's.

Obviously things are better today, but pretending like it was always Hyper Christian Dark Ages Everywhere is also bullshit and I'm tired of it.

No one here is pretending that. I'm not, and the anon who started the thread obviously wasn't. If anything, you seem to be pretending that things in 1800s Europe and America were better than they on-average were for gay people.

But hey, if you think you'd rather live back then than now, good for you. I personally like being able to be in public with my GF and not worry about whether people can tell we're together, so I'll be sticking with the 21st century, thanks.

Ah yes, saying that historically, some gay people did in fact get to live happily, if not brazenly or openly, prior to the 21st century is sheer fantasy. Not like we have records of it.

I never said things were better then than now (and they're only good now if you live in a sufficiently liberal area, which is very much like before anyway). I'm saying that today still sucks and therefore any modern fic that doesn't include modern homophobia should be considered just as much as Fantasy World, if that's the line we're supposed to swallow. How dare we want to be happy in regency clothes too?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2020-04-23 02:30 (UTC) - Expand

Agreed. If you want to not deal with it, then just write a similar fantasy setting in a different world where homophobia isn't a thing. When I read historical fiction, it's because I'm interested in the historical part, and deciding to just completely disregard an element of the setting ruins the whole thing for me.

So I take it you're equally up at arms about bad food descriptions or ignoring class distinctions and finances or everyone having nice teeth, too.

If it's anachronous to the setting? Yes. I want my period fic to be period-accurate. Otherwise, like I said, that's what fantasy settings are for.

Would those things be quite as distracting as inaccurate social attitudes towards homosexuality in a story focused on a same-sex relationship?

Yes? If you've got a family that can afford new clothes and servants, I wanna know how.

THIS. I write a lot of 19th century slash, and historical truth is important. I don't erase gay people or their culture (because that too would be ahistorical), but I don't pretend things were not what they were. Same for the situation of women, class issues etc. Otherwise why bother setting it in the past at all?

ayrt

Absolutely exactly! Historical accuracy is an art form altogether, like there are times through history, like within the (american) roaring twenties where so many artists and people were able to come out and simply be, (for the most part) simply because of the wild acceptance that their economy glamoured for them. But this became the exact opposite once the depression arrived, famous actors were forced back into hiding, blacklisted for any/every little thing, regardless of the truth.
Historical accuracy is /everything/ when it comes to writing anything historically based. Sexism, class, living arrangements, working environments, everything. Like if something is based in a certain time period, that is when it is placed.

Cool clothes and interesting historical events.

But you can have those in an AU or a fictional setting based on that time period.

Yeah I can also have it in a setting where everything is the same except no one kills gay people for being gay. Imagine.

But then calling it "historical" fiction is inaccurate. It's a fictional setting based on a historical one.

+1

(Anonymous) - 2020-04-25 09:23 (UTC) - Expand

You can have whatever you want, but it wouldn't be historical fiction.

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