[ SECRET POST #4856 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4856 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #694.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/w0Nwjj0.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly agree. It can work for me in limited circumstances when done really, really well (and even then it has to be used pretty sparingly) but it's mostly just not something I'm interested in spending a lot of time immersed in. Whereas historical fic with period-atypical acceptance of homosexuality... I love it.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not a fan of that either. I want all the escapism when it comes to my fic. I understand writers do it in the spirit of historical accuracy, but it's not my thing. I prefer AU history where nobody gives a shit if someone's not straight.

[(Anonymous)]

Bitch, me too!

[philstar22]

Yup. Then again, I'm mostly reading fantasy fandoms. So when the fandom is set in another world, there is no reason why the culture's views on homosexuality would have to be identical to Earth's anyway. So to me it shows a lack of imagination on the part of the author.

[resnullius_bells]

I don't mind it TOO much if, say, the character had internalized homophobia (or even would arguably have it if they weren't written as straight) in the canon source and they're simply adapting that to the AU, because seeing them overcoming that and getting support can be quite validating.

In just about every other instance, it'll make me close the tab. I have no patience for it, especially in fantasy/science fiction/etc. AUs completely are so different from ours.

[bur]

Absolutely. I mean, I want my peeps to be happy in the end, so while there can be, like, period-typical homophobia flavoring, it must be overcome. Give me my HEA.

[(Anonymous)]

I love it because otherwise you might as well be writing a fluffy modern AU. Ignoring history is basically the same as erasing it to me, you don't have to go like full shitbag about it, but removing that part of society, especially when it would affect the characters/setting noticeably just bothers me to some degree. It plays both as a means to completely take the authenticity and me out of the story, but also to continue the recent opinion in fandom that nothing bad can happen ever, something I am very much not a fan of... at all.

So to each their own, but I find removing things that are canon/period typical to be very distracting/problematic.

[(Anonymous)]

People are still shitty today, though. Modern times are not automatically better for LGBT people, so ANY time period wherein it's not a thing is inherently a fluffy AU, by your logic.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. If you want to not deal with it, then just write a similar fantasy setting in a different world where homophobia isn't a thing. When I read historical fiction, it's because I'm interested in the historical part, and deciding to just completely disregard an element of the setting ruins the whole thing for me.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. I write a lot of 19th century slash, and historical truth is important. I don't erase gay people or their culture (because that too would be ahistorical), but I don't pretend things were not what they were. Same for the situation of women, class issues etc. Otherwise why bother setting it in the past at all?

[(Anonymous)]

I’m cool with “period” fics that do away with period-typical homophobia, as long as they also do away with the period-typical sexism. I can’t stand when they completely get rid of one, but completely keep the other. The internal logic of the society no longer makes any sense.

So...women can marry women and that's fine, but they can't go out in public without either a chaperone or a husband? It's fine to be a lesbian - you just can't own property unless you marry a man? You can have a two-woman household, but neither one of you is deemed fit for most forms of occupation?

This is why I like ABO period piece fics. ABO prejudices make a good substitute for period-typical sexism and homophobia, but it's not quite as grim because it's ~analogous fabricated prejudice~ rather than actual real life shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Two-woman households have been a thing for a long time--look up Boston Marriages, for instance.

[(Anonymous)]

See, those sound like interesting things to have to navigate in a story that don't require outright bigotry, just logistical concern.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't care about fic that gloss over homophobia since most fan fiction authors have a hard of enough time keeping the time period details straight. I do get upset when Books/Movies/TV shows rewrite history. People did shitty things and they are part of our history. 'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'

[(Anonymous)]

I respect that-- like, there's enough of that in real life, and I don't necessarily want to deal with homophobia during my leisure time-- seeing it on screen has given me full physical panic before, as if it was happening to me in real time rather than a fictional character, I totally get not finding THAT fun! But I also don't like period fics where there's full and open acceptance that the characters don't get in canon (if there are canon gay characters), because I don't like having that struggle fully erased, in a way that feels like a disservice...

If the canon doesn't include homophobia as part of the world, if it's a little bit fantasy or even a heavily idealized version of the past, I like a lack of homophobia! Like, let Jeeves and Wooster have more angst about class difference than being two men! Refreshing and good! Let Maurice live happily ever after with Alec and not be bothered by anyone ever again! He's already DEALT with the problems of (someone else's) internalized homophobia and he COULD live in an ideal world! Whereas if I was reading a fic about Thomas from Downton Abbey or Miles from Bright Young Things, and they just never had to deal with homophobia, it would feel kind of hollow and false-- they have had struggles because of their sexuality. I want to see them WIN, but I don't think I'd be able to enjoy it if it was a matter of their never having had those struggles and won happiness anyway.

One of my historical fandoms includes characters who deal with HEAVY homophobia and I don't want the fic to ignore that completely-- it's significant, in their relationship, that they consider each other worth a LOT of risk. But I DO want to see that even if the greater world around them is homophobic, the people around them are ready to love and accept them wholeheartedly, even if it's 'unrealistic' for a whole cast of characters to do so. Characters I'm supposed to see as good SHOULD be on the right side of history and it's not as unrealistic as some people like to say to think that a wide variety of people could understand that gay people are human beings deserving of love and respect and safety-- even without knowing that someone they love/respect already IS gay!

If a historical fic is set in a time and place where the world is especially homophobic (and most of my serious fandoms are either turn of the century or the 1980s, so...), show me hope and happiness anyway, show me supportive and protective friends/families/friends-who-become-tight-knit-families, show me carefree moments where whatever homophobia exists in the outside world CANNOT touch the characters, where it's not ever-present.

I need stories without homophobia when I'm sick to death of the world I live in and need an escape... but I need stories about defeating homophobia, too, because if a character I love and identify with can live in a homophobic world and carve out a good and happy life, so can I.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Very well put! I completely agree. I personally like to see internalized/period-typical themes in fiction because it adds a sense of being able to rise above and defeat it in whatever way they can. The part you where mentioned them taking and accepting the risk of being together is an amazing point, something I value a lot even if it can be difficult to read.
I wish you the best, and hope you find your happily ever after! <33

[(Anonymous)]

This post is good and you should feel good :). Well said.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just sick of the idea that straight couples can have nonsensical and happily ever after fics, no matter how convoluted or historically inaccurate, anywhere and anywhen imaginable, but gods forbid we're allowed for one second to think that maybe gay people could be happy in history too.

[tabaqui]

Yup. I'd really rather it be tweaked a bit so I can actually enjoy a story, not sit there being depressed by the characters I love getting nothing but hate and living in fear.

[(Anonymous)]

History is not a flat uniformity of prejudice. Even if you just look at the period immediately before and after Oscar Wilde's incarceration, attitudes in the UK shifted significantly.

Plus the 21st century isn't just tolerance and joy, is it? A much smaller fraction of the world's population are free of prejudice, those who suffer it are still the majority.

Stories about people falling in love despite prejudice are powerful. They hold up for everyone to see the natural injustice of denying two consenting adults the right to love freely and spend their lives together.

Fanfiction is a hobby, people can write what they want. But personally I want historical accuracy in my stories because, to me, anything less is a cheap and lazy and undermines the strength and struggles of those before us, and how precious any joy and love were.

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand hankering for a historical setting but not wanting to read something where the characters can never openly be a couple and that sounds very depressing... but I really can't handle, say, Regency AU fics where everything else is the same historically BUT two dudes can fall in love and get married and give one the other's noble title and so on and they throw a wedding and everyone celebrates their love and... it's like the whole world is too OOC. If I'm going to read a historic AU slash fic (that doesn't also go off into fantasy a la Pride and Prejudice and Zombies), I'd rather read one where the characters get together and have to keep it on the down low but still find a way to make it work and be happy, so I get the happy ending without my suspension of disbelief crumbling.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I'm mostly happy for the fic that avoid it because most of the "period-typical" homophobia people write... isn't.

[(Anonymous)]

I prefer it. It's one thing if it's a fantasy setting with just the drapery of the Victorian era (or a steampunk setting) but if it's just a story set back in time then I expect it to be as historically accurate as possible, uncomfortable period attitudes and all, otherwise it's just revisionism. Escapism is fine and dandy but there are certain expectations when you're writing something you call historical that's supposed to be rooted in the reality of the time.

As an LGBT person myself I don't mind it, honestly. And I think sometimes it can be cathartic for some LGBT people themselves and I know a lot of LGBT people who write stories with such themes. I'm one of them.