fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4864 ]

[ SECRET POST #4864 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4864 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 09 secrets from Secret Submission Post #696.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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04. https://i.imgur.com/psRdJVc.jpg

I don't see what the problem or the objection is. But I've always felt the main problem with the 2D waifu sort of stuff is that the people who do it have very poor taste.

I mean, I think that since characters (especially protagonists) have generally a quality that draws people to them, it's inherently different.

Also, the fact that they're talking about men as a whole and speaking as a majority-treated-as-a-minority (women) or as a minority. You really can't compare men who are pushing their gendered stereotypes of women onto a character to people who enjoying characters while still being affected by sexism.

**who are

As someone who is fine with men... fictional men are nothing like real men. Particularly ones like the characters in the image you chose. You realize the guys from Free! were designed to appeal to women, right?

Like yeah, this.

Though to OP’s second point, that doesn’t feel terribly different than arguments in incel culture about fictional women being designed to appeal to men; therefore real women in general get talked shit about and fictional women are obsessed over.

Uh....fictional men/= real men, maybe? 'Cause mostly we *fix fictional men* in our fic to make them a whole hell of a lot less fucking annoying.

Isn’t that the parallel OP is stating, though? Incels also think their waifus lack the flaws of the real thing.

I mean, there's a difference between "fixing" things like casual misogyny or views on gender and what incels do.

I don't think either "incels" with waifus or their female equivalent are wrong in that sense though. If someone has a waifu or husbando because no real person is good enough and they're not out trying to date those real people who will only disappoint them, it's a win-win for everyone. Not everyone is meant to have an SO. That's not a flaw on their part.

......i dunno? The point, i guess, is that most people in fanfiction remove the flaws, which is why they *actually like them*.

It seems like this person is saying (to me) that 'crappy men in real life get bitched about but crappy fictional men get loved on', which...sure, to an extent. But a lot of the fictional men are 'fixed' or just never as crappy to begin with, which is why people tend to like them more than a lot of 'real' men.

One of us is missing something or i'm totally confused.

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(Anonymous) - 2020-05-01 00:31 (UTC) - Expand

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tabaqui - 2020-05-01 00:40 (UTC) - Expand

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feotakahari - 2020-05-01 00:35 (UTC) - Expand

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tabaqui - 2020-05-01 00:38 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, pretty sure a big part of the reason women are so attracted to fictional men is because fictional men often lack the sexism and/or misogyny and/or self-entitlement that so many real men have in spades.

This.

Given the fictional men that tend to get the most attention in fandom, I'm not sure that's entirely the case. It's more that their sexism/misogyny/entitlement is imaginary and not real women's problem so they can just focus on the pretty.

Yup. Agreed 100%.

AYRT - Yeah, you're not wrong. Personally all my faves are of the incredibly kind, non-sexist variety, so the reason I love fictional men so much is exactly as I said in my original comment. But you're right that a lot of women prefer male characters who are bad people.

Then again, those characters are rarely depicted as sexist. The sexist ones are usually the ones people genuinely hate. It's more often the indiscriminately homicidal/genocidal ones people seem to go for the most. "They don't hate women, they just hate everyone!"

Maybe you can "oh, both are sides are equally bad" when we live in an alternate universe where women haven't been treated like shit since the dawn of time. Fuck, at least these women you're bitching about haven't actively murdered like incels have, that already proves you're full of shit.

+1000000000

Not to mention to sheer failure of logic here: "they bitch about men but love fictional men! So irrational!" Like, no, doofus. We complain about men because we're sick of their sexist bullshit; we obsess over fictional men because they're men who aren't full of sexist bullshit. The logic isn't that hard to follow.

An no, #notallmen, but a LOT of men. Way too many men.

The lovely thing about caring for a fictional man is that you're not constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. You're not constantly trying to give him the benefit of the doubt that the sort of sexist things he says aren't really sexist.

And don't even get me started on how this would be even more the case for non-binary people, many of whom have to deal with sexism and shitty treatment due to their gender-identity.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2020-05-01 05:12 (UTC) - Expand

#NotAllMenButDefinitelyOP

amiright?

like, oh nooo, women are so mean, wanting men to not *checks hand* not rape and murder them...

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(Anonymous) - 2020-05-01 20:30 (UTC) - Expand

I think there's a difference between the oppressed class reimagining the oppressor class than the other way around.

yeah i can't even halfway begin to care about this lmao. we have not even scratched the surface of balancing the scales between men and women and i do not give a fuck if there's a ~double standard~ about finding only fictional men hot/good and being disgusted by real men and their waifus. men's fantasies have dominated media and women's lives for goddamned ages. women get to decide what gets them hot for once.

you can have the equality opinion once we've actually managed to achieve equality.

I actually know someone like this! It's pretty strange behavior. Like two extremes. I had not considered that comparison but when you say it that way it could be similar.

I mean... I get the need to vent about men in general, now and then, given the problems I think a lot of the people who are venting have with them-- hell, anyone who loves men sometimes has to shout about how they're awful in a 'can't live with 'em can't live without 'em' way even if they aren't impacted by more serious problems with abuse/neglect/entitlement... And with the internet being what it was, that's visible in a new way! And it can be hurtful to stumble across a whole lot of that when you're just trying to BE.

But yeah, if you're harping on about how men are gross and garbage while carrying on with exactly the same waifu behavior, that's some hypocrisy there.

There's a bit of a difference here between "fictional men are perfect because they are safe, attractive, and I can ignore their flaws since they aren't irl people I have to live with" vs the attitude I have seen from incels and their waifus, which is "real women are disgusting because they are not like anime women and possess self interests and actual human bodily functions".

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