[ SECRET POST #4876 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4876 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 37 secrets from Secret Submission Post #698.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

yeah i don't understand why ppl give JJ so much grief over not following TLJ when Rian ignored most of what JJ did in the first place.

it's why i dislike both TLJ and TROS, they both read like individual movies in the same universe with no connection to each other and that's why the 'trilogy' is shit, because it's not actually a structured story through all 3 movies.

Rian should have been given his own un-numbered movie to do if they didn't give a shit about continuity.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I keep hearing this criticism that Rian Johnson didn't follow up on TFA and I really befuddled by that claim. Could you give me an example?

[(Anonymous)]

rey and finn were helmed as the leads, and in TLJ he was reduced to nothing more than a side-character who made quippy jokes as opposed to a hero who fought by rey's side and had her back. also being a narrative foil to kylo: someone raised in a horrible environment only to rise above it, while kylo had a good life but fell from grace due to snoke, that disappears.

there's also the fact that kylo has personal beef with finn at the end of TFA and that gets ignored like it was never a thing.

rey's entire 'seeing the good' in kylo when the dude had murdered the man she'd grown fond of as slashed her friend's back open, like she straight up HATED him at the end of TFA, but one force-whammy vision and suddenly everything's k and she's trying to see the good in him because of reasons.

snoke becomes a maguffin and a truly confusing as shit character who's existence was pointless because he gets murked in 5 mins for ~subversion, instead of following from TFA having him as the final Boss to vanquish. and TROS's subsequent attempt to explain him did not make it better.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the Finn stuff is correct and a major weakness of the movie (although I think there's a possibility it was mandated from above but who really knows on that) (and also, like, JJ does way worse in that regard in TROS).

But the Rey point is not at all a good reading of the emotional journey her character undergoes in TLJ, and the Snoke point is dead wrong to me, because Snoke is just as much of a McGuffin in TFA as he is in TLJ.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I really enjoyed Finn's journey in TLJ and how he went from fighting only for Rey to wanting to fight for a bigger cause. I agree that Finn's stormtrooper past kind of ending up not mattering, but that was a TROS problem.

Rey was always shown to be very compassionate in TFA, so it makes sense that she would empathize with a situation so close to her own: Kylo being abandoned (or so he believed) by someone he loved and trusted. Add to that her belief that her job was to bring back a Jedi hero to the Resistance (it clearly wasn't going to be Luke) and she put all her hope in Kylo.

Snoke wasbasically was the Emperor of the OT: no one really cared about him. His death opened up Episode IX to being something other than ROTJ 2.0, I thought.

[(Anonymous)]

"Rey was always shown to be very compassionate in TFA, so it makes sense that she would empathize with a situation so close to her own: Kylo being abandoned (or so he believed) by someone he loved and trusted. Add to that her belief that her job was to bring back a Jedi hero to the Resistance (it clearly wasn't going to be Luke) and she put all her hope in Kylo."

I don't agree - I mean, there's compassion and there's "the guy was the epitome of evil , tried to kill my frined and did kill teh otehr guy I was friends with, who, by the way, was his father, and tried to give him an out-of-jail-all-is-forgiven card, about three freaking days ago" (TLJ takes place almost immediately after TFA). I'm sorry, but in what freaking universe should she be so trusting and so hopeful so quickly? Remember how she grew up - that's not an environment that breeds a lot of blind trust in people.

(DA, btw)

[(Anonymous)]

the "different anon" above the anon you're replying to:

some things:

The Knights of Ren, they're built up to be this 'thing' in TFA but they don't show at all in TLJ. You'd think they could have been the ones Rey and Kylo were fighting in the throne room at least.

Snoke: also built up to be a Big Bad and then killed pretty ignominously. Made me wonder what the point to his character even was.

Hux: TFA shows him to be fairly formidable, even though there was some humor made at his expense. TLJ makes him a pathetic laughingstock.

something small that I noted in my original reaction post to this back in the day: TFA made Threepio's arm red. TLJ made it gold again. Why bother? Why did it suddenly change? It doesn't actually affect the story, it just seems like a pointless change.

TFA builds up this idea that Rey's parents are out there somewhere. TLJ goes on to explicitly say she doesn't have any (both between Kylo telling her and her Force vision on Ach-To that only shows her reflections of herself).

In TFA, Finn seems interested in Rey, including with a joke where he wants to know if she's got a boyfriend. In TLJ, they give him Rose as prospective love interest (what with the love declaration at the end which I disliked because it came out of nowhere but that's a whole other thing)

There were other things in general I disliked about choices they made for the movie but they're not specifically related to how I thought JJ set some stuff up only for Rian to say, "nope, not going to do that, in fact I'mma do something else!"

I mean, I don't hate TLJ but I came out of it kinda disappointed. I liked it better on second viewing. I do think it was gorgeous and that was one of my favorite things about it.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Well, we can both agree on the gorgeousness at least! :)

Knights of Ren: Rian Johnson didn't want to use them as canon fodder. I think at the time he knew JJ was most likely coming back for Ep IX.

Snoke = the Emperor. As I said upthread, it opened the door to Ep IX not being a rehash of ROTJ.

I can see your point about Hux, but I'm the type of person who can see ridiculousness and ruthlessness coexist in the same character (one of the reasons I love The Death of Stalin so much, I suppose).

Threepio had his gold arm back at the end of TFA.

TFA built up the idea that Rey believed her parents were coming back for her, but also shot it down. As Maz Kanata said: "Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back."

Re Finnrey: while you and I might believe something had been started, it doesn't seem to have been intentional. John Boyega: "I mean, we didn’t establish a romance in seven; we never played it that way. Daisy and I, we’re friends. [So there’s no romance?] Yes, Finn and Rey – they’re just friends."
https://variety.com/2016/film/news/star-wars-episode-viii-darker-bigger-john-boyega-1201774027/