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[ SECRET POST #4882 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4882 ⌋

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As a fellow ace person, I'm sorry. That sucks. It's totally one of the (many) things that makes me not want to come out to people. Like, no, I am not a naive child. I probably know about, read, and fap to kinkier stuff than most het women. I have areas of deliberate inexperience, but I'm a grown-ass adult just like the rest of you.

I guess I should specify, though, that even ace people who don't know much about sex because they're just toally non-interested are still not naive children, and I'm not implying they are.

Knowing tons about sex but not having it =/= naive and childish

Not knowing much about sex because it doesn't interest you ALSO =/= naive and childish

I don't tell people because I just don't think it's any of their business. I obviously have a different perspective on it than other people because a lot of asexual people DO feel the need to tell their family and friends, but I just don't see why it's necessary. It's not equivalent to telling people you're gay in my opinion (which is an argument I've seen), to me it's more equivalent to telling everyone you're into BDSM (just as an example, any sexual thing would apply here). People you're not dating or potentially sleeping with don't need to know what you're into sexually, in my opinion. I'm also aromantic, and I DO tell people that to explain why I'm not in a relationship or attempting to find one (that's more equivalent to coming out as gay IMO, it's the social aspect as far as who people should expect/not expect you to be dating). Unless you tell them (and obviously people can if they want) they're going to assume whatever they want about your sex life. Some people might assume that since I'm not into relationships I'm not into sex either and others might assume I'm into casual sex, I don't really know, but I don't really care, either. It's just not important to me that other people know what I am/am not into sexually unless I'm dating them, and since I'm not interested in dating anyone, it's basically irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. (Obviously other people will feel differently, I'm just explaining why I don't think it's really necessary to tell people you're asexual unless you just want to.)

Anyway, yes. Even though I'm not interested in sex, I've had a decent amount of it in the past (before I knew asexuality was a thing and I was trying to be "normal") and am familiar with all sorts of different sexual acts and kinks, and I'm not offended or scandalized by the topic. I hate this assumption that you must be "innocent" if you're asexual.

I feel differently. Not everyone needs to know I'm ace/aro, but if I know them well enough that we've talked about their preferences at all, or discussed their past relationships, or whathaveyou, then it does feel like I'm in the closet when they don't know.

Colleagues ask me whether I'm seeing anyone, and I say no and leave it at that. But that doesn't feel emotionally honest to me. It feels bad, like I'm hiding. They ask me how I can share an apartment with my father and still date. I say he respects my autonomy and if I want to bring someone home he'd respect that. Which is true, but feels overwhelmingly like a lie. They ask me if I want kids. I say maybe, but I don't think it's in the cards for me. They ask why not. I just shrug. Or they're just chatting about what their respective "types" are - what they like in a man/woman, celebs they find hot. And I have to decide whether to opt out of the conversation, or join in knowing full well that when I say I have a type, it doesn't really mean the same thing. It's not a lie, but it's not exactly the truth either.

I like being known. I like knowing that the people in my life know who I am and like me.

Though for myself, I don't think of my asexuality as being separate from my aromanticism. It's all one thing for me, I can't separate it in my mind. And I very much do consider it an orientation, not just a kink like BDSM or whathaveyou.

Even though I feel very differently than you do, your post has made me consider whether telling people I'm aromantic when the situation calls for it might be an easier way for me to come out, though.

It would never have occurred to me to do that, because like I said, to me being ace and aro are inseparable. If I had romantic feelings for someone, I would desire them sexually, and if I desired someone sexually I would have romantic feelings for them. That's just how it works for me (or doesn't work for me, as the case may be).

But saying I'm aromantic might feel like less of an uncomfortably vulnerable overshare than saying I'm ace, so maybe I'll consider trying that in the future.

Then again, I feel like most people won't know what the hell I mean if I say I'm aromantic, which is definitely a downside. So idk.

ayrt

I didn't see this when I wrote my other response, but that's really interesting!

I feel like it's possible I might have romantic feelings for someone someday (and that might be a remote possibility, I don't know, but I feel like it's at least possible) but I can't imagine ever having sexual feelings for anyone. They're just completely separate for me.

And yeah, a lot of people don't know what aromantic means. I just say it means I'm not interested in dating anyone and they usually say "oh, okay" and that's usually the end of it unless they're particularly nosy ("well, why not?" and act like there's something wrong with me for it) and I'll either change the subject or ask why they're interested in dating the opposite sex (which they don't have an answer for, same as me, it's just how they are/I am), depending on what kind of mood I'm in.

This has been an interesting conversation. I appreciate your civility and openness. And you have got me thinking a bit. Thank you.

ayrt

That's cool. There's such a huge variety of opinions among asexual people, and I think mine is definitely in the minority.

If people ask whether I'm seeing anyone, I'll say no. If they ask why (and they have in the past) I've said I'm not interested. I don't live with my father (or any other relatives), but if someone had asked that, I'd have said I don't bring anyone home because I'm not interested in dating or relationships. If they ask if I want kids, I say I don't want them because I don't like them. Like I said, I'm completely open about being aromantic, I just don't volunteer that I don't like sex because I feel like that's almost oversharing in a way? Like if people are talking about their relationships and not mentioning sex, and I just say "I don't like sex" out of nowhere, I feel like people'd find it weird because that wasn't the topic. If they were specifically discussing sex and what they liked sexually, then sure, that would be a more understandable place to bring it up if I wanted to, but like I said, I'm a pretty private person in general and I just don't see why it's necessary for them to know because it's a private thing.

People who aren't asexual aren't expected to tell everyone what their sexual likes and dislikes are so I don't see why we should be, and to me that's what being asexual is. It's about what I like (or don't like, in my case) sexually, and I feel like that's not something that's necessary to share with people you aren't planning on dating or potentially sleeping with. Obviously that varies, though, and different people feel differently about it.

Yeah, BDSM maybe wasn't the best example. I don't think it's a kink, but I don't consider it an orientation, either. To me, aromantic is an orienation, asexual is just more of a...preference? (That's not exactly the right word, but I can't think of a more accurate one at the moment.) To me it's more about sexual likes/dislikes. Since people are talking about it on the first page, I see it kind of like the top/bottom thing for gay men. Most gay men will say "I'm gay" but they don't generally add on "and I'm a top" (or a bottom, or I'm not into anal at all, or whatever) unless they're talking to a potential date and want to make sure they're sexually compatible (or they're talking to friends and they just like talking about their sex lives, which obviously is fine if they're cool with it). The important thing for people in general to know is that they date men (or want to, anyway), not whatever they do or don't do sexually. To me, the important thing to share is that I don't date or want to date anyone, not whatever I do or don't do sexually.

I don't know, they're just two distinct things to me, but it's interesting to hear another perspective!

To me, aromantic is an orienation, asexual is just more of a...preference? (That's not exactly the right word, but I can't think of a more accurate one at the moment.) To me it's more about sexual likes/dislikes.

Why do you think that is? (not trying to pick a fight, I'm just honestly curious.)

I definitely see asexual as an orientation. It's not just a preference for me. It's my sexual identity every bit as much as any other person's gender-attraction is their sexual identity. I mean, "both" is a sexual orientation, and "all" is a sexual orientation. To me "none" is right there on that same orientation spectrum.

People who aren't asexual aren't expected to tell everyone what their sexual likes and dislikes are so I don't see why we should be, and to me that's what being asexual is.

I guess that's the root of why we feel differently about this. Because for you it's about what you like and what you dislike, and for me it's a piece of my identity. It's not that I like or dislike sex; it's that I have no internal mechanism for attraction. So like, I agree with you that nobody should be expected to talk about their sexual identity. I just also think that most people want the people in their lives to know and accept them, sexual identity and all.

I agree with you that coming out as ace tends to feel like oversharing though, which is why I rarely do it, despite the fact that I hate how it makes me feel when people I've known for months or years still assume I'm straight and I just let them.

Like I said, I'm completely open about being aromantic

My aromanticsm feels very secondary to me. For me, being aromantic is just an aspect of my asexuality. So it generally wouldn't even occur to me to "come out" as aro. It feels like putting the cart before the horse. But I'm considering the merits of it now, due to this conversation.

ayrt

It's hard to explain, but I'm going to try. I keep using gay people as an example because to me that feels like the best way to explain, so hopefully that's ok with you!

I guess it's because I see aromanticism and asexuality (and romantic and sexual orientations in general) as completely separate things? To me being gay/bi/whatever is about who you want to have relationships with. Most people also want to have sex with the people they're romantically interested in, and most people are going to assume that if you're dating someone you're having sex with them currently or will eventually. No one can control what other people assume about their sex life, and it's kind of irrelevant to me, to be honest.

To me, coming out is a social thing. A gay person comes out because they want to be able to date someone of the same sex, bring them to family events, maybe get married and have kids with them, etc. and not have to hide their relationship or family. I mean, there are people who are asexual who identify as homoromantic or romantically interested in the same gender. They can have romantic relationships with people of the same gender and do all those same things (bring them to family events, etc.) but not have sex with them. Is it necessary for that person to declare that they're not having sex with their partner? No, most people would find it oversharing. Sure, you can make a semantic argument that "gay" is different than "homoromantic asexual" and I've seen people arguing that if you identify as "gay" you have to be sexually interested in the same gender but there are definitely people who would technically be considered "homoromantic asexuals" but who just identify as gay because the important part to them is who they want to have relationships with, and the sexual aspect is not really relevant in a social context, which I agree with.

The socially relevant part is who you're interested in having a romantic relationship with. When someone comes out as gay I don't think "oh, they want to have sex with the same gender", I think "oh, they want to date/marry/fall in love with the same gender", because wondering about people's sex lives is honestly not something that even occurs to me (it's not some moral superiority thing where I think I'm "above it" or anything, it just literally does not even occur to me most of the time). Like, intellectually I know that most people want to have sex with people they're romantically involved with, but it's more of a subconscious thing for me. It's just not even something I consciously think of whenever someone mentions their relationship or whatever.

it's my sexual identity every bit as much as any other person's gender-attraction is their sexual identity.

I generally don't really think about sex (I feel like that sounds obnoxious and I generally don't mean it that way so I'm sorry if it seems that way, I'm not sure of a better way to word it), so my mind kind of defaults to romantic attraction whenever dating or relationships is brought up.

I also don't feel like disliking sex is a huge part of my identity. To me that feels almost like placing too much importance on it in a way? It's treated as this huge thing in our culture, like there's even a specific word for someone who's never had sex! To me, sex is just an activity, not any more meaningful or important than any other activity. I mean, I'm not interested in sky diving either, but I don't consider that to be part of my identity.

Aromanticism is a part of my identity. Being childfree is part of my identity. Those are the things that have an actual effect on my life. People wondering why I'm not dating anyone and am not on the hunt for a spouse (I actually had a former coworker get angry with me for not being on any dating apps because she "had" to suffer through bad dates trying to find a husband and therefore I should've had to, too) and don't want kids (I've heard similar things from parents, that they "had to suffer" because of having kids, and everyone else should, too, and acting like not having kids just isn't an option) are about my aromanticism and being childfree, not asexuality, and those are the things that actually affect me. No one has ever asked how I feel about sex, and I don't feel like it's relevant information to volunteer.

I guess that's the root of why we feel differently about this. Because for you it's about what you like and what you dislike, and for me it's a piece of my identity. It's not that I like or dislike sex; it's that I have no internal mechanism for attraction.

I feel the same way, but I've also always had a hard time with the concept of "sexual attraction" because I kind of don't see the point of it, honestly. I've come across so many people online who identify as asexual because they "aren't sexually attracted to anyone" but they love sex and are in relationships (and some even going so far as to say they wouldn't want to be in a non-sexual relationship). In that situation, I'm just kind of like "what's even the point?" Who cares if you're "not sexually attracted to anyone" if you love sex and want to be in sexual relationships. I feel like "not sexually attracted to anyone" is kind of a meaningless distinction at that point if it has no real effect on your behavior or relationships.

To me, "asexual" as a label is only useful as a way of saying "I'm not interested in sex" and "I don't want a sexual relationship". For it to mean "I'm not sexually attracted to anyone" (but that may not have any affect whatsoever on anything in my life) is just pointless to me.

As far as I know I've never been sexually attracted to anyone (for some reason it feels hard to nail down a concrete definition, but the most common one I've seen is "wanting to have sex with a specific person" and I've definitely never felt that). I have had sex, though, because I was in a relationship and it was just what you did (or so I felt back then; I didn't think I had a choice). I didn't like it (it wasn't traumatic or horrible; I just felt like it wasn't for me, I imagine it's similar to how a gay person might feel about having sex with someone of the opposite gender). To me, not being sexually attracted to anyone/not liking sex are intertwined and trying to separate them feels kind of pointless because either way it doesn't change anything.

I just also think that most people want the people in their lives to know and accept them, sexual identity and all.

I just don't see it that way at all. Like I said, I feel like it's possible that I could theoretically have romantic feelings for someone someday. If that happened to be a woman (I'm a woman, too) I would feel like that would be relevant to share, and not being open about that would make me feel like I was hiding and not being honest. But whatever we did or didn't do in the bedroom wouldn't be relevant to anyone other than us.

I agree with you that coming out as ace tends to feel like oversharing though, which is why I rarely do it, despite the fact that I hate how it makes me feel when people I've known for months or years still assume I'm straight and I just let them.

At this point I've (mostly) gotten to the point of accepting that I can't really control what people assume about me, and don't really think about it. (And this applies to lots of different things, not just my relationship status.) I mean, my mom still refers to me as straight even though I've said I don't like men or women (I think because she's very old-fashioned/traditional in a lot of aspects, and the concept of not being into either just isn't something she gets) but what she thinks of me is about her, and it's not something I can control. I know who/what I am, so it just doesn't matter to me if other people make erroneous assumptions anymore (it used to, but as I've gotten older I just don't care as much anymore what other people think or assume about me). (Not saying that it's this way for you at all, because we obviously see things very differently, just that this is my experience.)

My aromanticsm feels very secondary to me. For me, being aromantic is just an aspect of my asexuality. So it generally wouldn't even occur to me to "come out" as aro. It feels like putting the cart before the horse. But I'm considering the merits of it now, due to this conversation.

Again, it's interesting how different we are, because to me it's basically the opposite. The aromanticism is the primary/"important" and the asexual aspect is kind of secondary/not as important. For me, the important part of the orientations (I've seen more people lately use just "orientation" instead of "sexual orientation" which is probably just because it's shorter and people are lazy, lol, but I like it because it feels more inclusive, it can refer to either sexual or romantic orientation or both) is who you're interested in dating/having a relationship with, and the sexual stuff is more secondary. To me being aromantic is more a part of my identity because I feel like it has a bigger effect on my life, whereas the other part is like "so I don't like sex, I don't like bowling either, big deal, it doesn't actually affect anything".

Anyway, that got waaaaay longer than I expected so I'm going to stop here, lol.

Hey, me again. I know I asked you a question in the above post, but I've decided to bow out now, while this thread is still positive. F!S sometimes has a person or two who are kind of invalidating of ace/aro stuff (less now than it used to but still), and I'm just feeling kind of down today and really don't want to have to deal with any ace negativity if it does come along. So I'm gonna go while things are still good. Sorry for asking you a question and then leaving.

Thanks for the interesting conversation. :)

ayrt

So I didn't see this before and left a really long reply above, and you might not see this but I just wanted to say that it was interesting to hear your perspective. I hope you have a good night and don't come across anything negative! :)

I mean way back before I even knew what asexuality was, I knew that I was uncomfortable with sex and just forced myself through with it in hope that I'd just get over it since everyone else I know can enjoy sex so 'why can't I?'
I went to couples therapy sessions to 'fix me' because of how often people told me that it wasn't normal to not have a sex drive. The things I went through with my ex was to correct my attitude to sex has left me never wanting to date ever again because of how much I put up with - because how could I really love them if I wasn't willing to try making myself normal.

God I wish it was a preference. I know that there's people who are OK with being asexual, but I'm in that place where I know that's what I am but I still wish more than anything that I could get intimate with someone and not feel so bad about it.

ayrt

This is really late and I don't know if you'll see it but wanted to reply anyway...

So it was late and I was really tired when I wrote all my other comments and I don't feel like I used the best wording but even now that I've slept I'm still not sure what words I should've used instead so...I don't know. Sorry about that.

I'm with you in that I felt that way way before I knew what asexuality was. I think I said it in one of my other comments but I had sex in past relationships because I thought that I had to because it was just what you were supposed to do.

I found out what asexuality was not too long after a relationship ended for an unrelated reason and when that happened I wasn't quite okay with it, but I was on the way to being okay with it. I never felt the need to go to therapy or anything.

The next relationship I attempted to have, was a long time friend who told me he had feelings for me. I said that wasn't going to work because I was asexual. He said he didn't care about sex that much and would be fine not doing it. I didn't feel like I felt the same way he did, but I liked him well enough so I said sure. It was fine, but ultimately that didn't work, either.

I was depressed for a long after that relationship ended and was all "I'm an abnormal freak, no one will ever love me" until one day, I don't know what I was, it was like a switch flipped. I was just...tired of the self hatred. I was just like "you know what, screw this, I'm NOT a freak, there are other people like me out there, it'll be harder to find someone than it is for most people, but I can find someone to be in a relationship with if I want to, it's not the end of the world" and then once I didn't have the "I'm a weirdo and no one wants me" excuse to cling to anymore, I realized I wasn't in a relationship because I didn't want to be and realized I was aromantic. I think that was at least partly why a couple of the past relationships didn't work out. Honestly, it was way harder for me to accept that I was aromantic than it was for me to accept that I was asexual. Because if you're just asexual, you can still find another asexual person and be in a relationship and be "normal" as far as everyone else knows, but being aromantic...when you're the lone single person in a sea of couples, that's always going to get raised eyebrows and questions from people.

So I'm sorry if I made it seem like I thought it was something you can change, because I don't feel like it is. I feel like I've been this way my whole life (lots of little things when I was a kid make so much sense in retrospect) and it's not something I can change, and I don't want to. I don't think I've ever really had romantic feelings for anyone and I'm not entirely sure I know what they are (I've read so many threads about people trying to explain it and it seems to be slightly different for everyone, but the best I can figure, it's not something that I've really experienced) but I feel like it's a (small) possibility I might want a romantic relationship someday. Liking sex is not something I can ever imagine happening, though, so anyone I would potentially date would have to be asexual, too. That's just not something I'm willing to compromise on anymore, but I doubt I'll want a relationship anytime soon, if ever, so it's probably a moot point. I like being alone too much.

how could I really love them if I wasn't willing to try making myself normal.

As for this point, I just came to look at it as it didn't mean there was something wrong with me, it just meant they weren't compatible with me. It's kind of like a gay person trying to make themselves want to have sex with someone of the opposite gender...it doesn't mean there's something wrong with them, they're just with someone who's the wrong gender and isn't compatible with them. I mean obviously lots of gay people feel/have felt that way, and lots of people try to make them feel that way, but I'm looking at it from my own perspective here. I don't feel like there's anything wrong with gay people, so why should I feel like there's something wrong with me? I guess in some ways it is kind of like an orientation like the other person (or was that you?) said in that I feel like it's just how I'm wired, but I also feel like it's different in a lot of ways. I don't know, it's really complicated and I've never been able to fully, 100% explain how I feel about it. Or if you want to use a different example other than being gay, it's like me trying to be with someone who wants kids, or who is religious while I'm not interested in either of those things. It doesn't mean I'm wrong just because how they feel is way more common than I how I feel, it just means we're not compatible.

Anyway, I didn't mean to trivialize being asexual because it's still a big deal, it's just a different thing than being aromantic to me, and a...less public? one so I feel like being aromantic has a bigger effect on me outwardly/in social contexts. Asexuality affects me more internally, within my own thoughts and sense of self...if that makes any sense at all.

I'm not trying to say any of this applies to you, just trying to explain my thought process and how it was for me. I know how it feels to feel like a total freak because I've been there, so I'm really sorry that you're going through that, and I'm willing to listen if you need to vent (I'm pretty much always hanging around here for at least a bit on each post).

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