[ SECRET POST #4901 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4901 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 72 secrets from Secret Submission Post #702.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree in the strongest possible terms. TV shows are serialized! They're episodic! Part of the benefit is that you don't need to know where things are going, and in fact, having an iron-clad long-term plan is often bad! It's good to be able to see what works and take things in a direction you might never have thought of.

Like. I think the X-Files is commonly cited as an example of problems with long-term serialized storytelling, and with good reason. But for all that it had a lot of problems in that regard, there's a really clear line between the parts where they didn't have an overall idea of where they wanted the plot arc to go, and the episodes after they sat down and figured it out - the fifth season episodes Patient X/The Red And The Black are the dividing lines. And the thing is that the episodes where they were just making it up are much, much better. They're mysterious and cool and fun, even if they didn't ultimately add up to anything.

And IMO TV as a format should be evaluated at least in part on an episodic basis. A TV series is not one long movie that happens to be broken up into 45-minute chunks. If an approach to TV making results in making a bunch of really good episodes, then it is a success at least to that extent, even if it doesn't hang together at the end.

[(Anonymous)]

This really, really depends on the show. Some shows are designed to be episodic, some are designed to be serialized, and some are designed to be a mix of the two. More serialized shows really do need a long-term plan, though there certainly needs to be flexibility and willingness to change based on what works or things that happen unexpectedly that necessitate change (see Babylon 5's 5-year plan that was changed around some based on real life needs like cast leaving, but the core plan remained the same).

[(Anonymous)]

IDK. I mean, just look at DS9 - DS9 basically is B5 without having an overarching plot planned from the start of the series and an extremely episodic format. And IMO it's just as good a show as B5.

[silverr]

I think DS9 had the same issues as B5, and was also a mix of serialised and episodic.

I also think creators sometimes need to make adjustment based on the unexpected popularity (or unpopularity) of certain characters.

[(Anonymous)]

DS9 didn't start out as serialized, though. That element was added later. It started out as similarly episodic to TNG. DS9 developed over time. It isn't the same at all as a planned serialized show like B5, even though there are some other elements of those two shows that are similar.

Some shows are serialized. Some shows are serialized and planned. And others are serialized and supposedly planned and yet it turns out they really only planned for one or two seasons. I think this secret is referring more to that kind of show, the prestige kind of serialized show based around a serialized concept where it turns out the writers didn't actually plan past the beginning of their "very cool concept" and it shows.

[(Anonymous)]

That's my point! DS9 is a really successful show despite the fact that it started as a very episodic show (and largely remained that way), and that the serialized elements were developed gradually without detailed planing in advance.

IMO the problems start when the people in charge put too much emphasis on the larger serial plot and it's not good enough. But I also think that, like, if it leads to a bunch of great episodes, it's not really bad writing. Season 1 of Twin Peaks is heavily serialized, and ends without resolving any of the basic serial questions of the show. But it's still one of the best seasons of TV ever made. And that would still be the case no matter how ultimately satisfying or unsatisfying the ultimate answers were.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. But a serialized, planned show can also be really well done. I don't think serialized or episodic are inherently better. Either can work, and a mix can work. It depends on the show, and it depends on having writers that can find the right balance. And some shows do require having a plan up front, and that's okay. A planned show can be good too with good writers and a good plan.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh man, I was about to be like, "R U SERIOUS" about TXF, because I thought you were saying the show, and the mytharc part of the show specifically, got better after S5. Which I wildly disagree with.

But upon rereading your comment, I think you're saying the show was better before they started trying to force the mytharc to all fit together, in S5? In which case, yeah, I agree.

Although I don't agree that they should've just kept going with no plan, just throwing stuff out there and seeing what stuck. I think they were a little screwed either way. Ideally they would've found a happy medium; some kind of loose but cohesive overall plot to unify the mytharc. And then just let the stray ends that didn't fit in...not fit in.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, totally! My point is that planning (a) is not necessary to make good episodes of a TV show and (b) doesn't always make a show better.

I think the problem with the later mytharc episodes wasn't just the fact that they had a plan, it's that they changed the tone of the show as a result of having the plan - they made it feel way less weird and atmospheric and conspiratorial. There's no fundamental reason that having a plan means that you have to change the conspiratorial vibes. It kind of feels like the vagueness in earlier seasons was just a way to be lazy and not come up with a story, not an intentional choice. Which is a shame because that atmosphere is one of the best parts of the show.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Of course it isn't necessary for good tv, and the secret maker isn't saying that I don't think. But some shows, by there very design, do need planning, and when those writers don't plan far enough ahead and then fumble when the show reaches the point where they haven't planned any more, that reflects badly on the writer. There are also some shows where they did plan ahead and it worked really well. So planning ahead can make good tv, although it isn't necessary.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that planning ahead can make good TV but I don't think that it's necessary and more I don't think that it's virtuous or a sign of good writing. If someone just made it up as they went along, I don't think that's necessarily the reason that it's bad writing, which I think OP implies.

And the other problem that I have with this way of thinking is that it I think it devalues the individual episodes.