fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4923 ]

[ SECRET POST #4923 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4923 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Legend of the White Snake]

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03.

[Komi Can't Communicate]

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04.

[The Elm-Chanted Forest]

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05.

(Lucifer, Supernatural)

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06.

[Wheel of Time]

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07.

[Queer Eye]

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08.

[Criminal Minds]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 49 secrets from Secret Submission Post #705.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

How so?

Noone truly integrates. They just form pockets of their own cultures which consider themselves superior to everyone else.

But what about Irish, Italian, German, Scandinavian, and central and eastern European immigrants to the United States during the 19th and 20th centuries? They were considered distinctly not American and then they integrated. So to say that no one ever integrates seems empirically wrong.

All of those cultures have enough similarities that they integrated (white, christian).

So when you said "Noone truly integrates", that was untrue?

But it only counts if they're the same RACE.

Also everyone should have one unified culture, particularly white culture. If not they're violent heathens who should fuck off and die. /s

I see you have an opinion based on a narrow view of your own personal experiences.

Does this happen? Yes. Does it happen every time any culture enters another and fails to assimilate? Hell to the no. Your experiences have not been wide enough to make a blanket statement like "multiculturalism has failed." There are two issues at hand: one, a stranger in a strange land has a need to cling to the familiar when faced with so much unfamiliarity, so yes, naturally, small communities or cliques form; and two, the prevailing attitude of any society is, "no, YOU blend in with US" and the concept of a multi-culture is squashed by the dominant culture that doesn't want another culture adding flavor to their own. Either way, the subculture never wins. So they have two choices: completely assimilate and give up everything about their culture, or become a separate community within the larger community.

I don't think this means multiculturalism doesn't work. I think it means we as a human species need to work a fuckton harder on shedding our instinctual need for tribalism and a Them against which we can pit Us as superior. It's not like it can never happen; there were times in history when, e.g. Japan assimilated outside culture rather than assert themselves as superior. It can be done. It's just hard to see when your entire viewpoint is colored by only ever seeing examples of distinct segregation rather than mixing.

It's especially extraordinary when people make the argument that assimilation is impossible and point to a culture that is actively in the process of assimilating

Assimilation has not happened yet and therefore it will never happen, sayeth the wise man

But multiculturalism seems incompatible with total integration: multicturalism to me involves separate cultures voluntarily living in close proximity and sharing aspects of themselves with each other either to promote things their culture values, or profit, or as an exchange because they find aspects of other cultures interesting but want to put their own spin on them (sometimes, admittedly, in shitty appropriative ways.).

A certain degree of cultural mixing is desirable because new ideas can benefit everyone; requiring that certain cultures abandon their history and traditions not because they’re harmful but because they get in the way of potential profits, or some find religious pluralism or LGBT+ identities offensive, or whatever, is bullshit. Honor killings are bullshit, FGM is bullshit, but so is running thousands of miles of guaranteed to spill oil pipeline through native lands, or bulldozing sacred sites to divide tribal lands, or chattel slavery in general most certainly including chattel slavery based on skin color.

This.

You say that as if integration is the ideal for multiculturalism. It isn't. Integration would mean everyone becoming like the dominant white European colonial culture. That's not what multiculturalism is at all.

Multiculturalism is cultures living together in harmony. Maybe there's some overlap and sharing. Little changes happen because living together over long periods of time and sharing means things just naturally become part of each other's cultures. But a lot of things are also going to remain separate and distinct and unique.

I'm not going to bother checking anymore comments because it will be all the same tumblr shit.

What I will say is that I don't want my rights infringed upon as a woman and I don't want to lose the LGBTQ+ rights we've worked so fucking hard to have. If people can't accept those civil rights then they should fucking leave and go somewhere they can oppress people all they like. At the moment, the majority of pushbike in my country on LGBTQ rights is from Muslims.

There's just such a bizarre leap from "Society must accept LGBT rights and some immigrants dislike LGBT rights" to "MULTICULTURALISM IS A FAILURE"

And in the US it's fundamentalist Xians who give most, if not all, of the pushback, and Rep. Ilhan Omar (Minnesota) is certainly *not* anti-LGBTQ.

So instead of trying to help LGBT+ and feminist recent Muslim immigrants and welcome them to your country, you’re gonna let the regressive members of their community (often their parents, which happens with Christians too) treat them like shit? I guarantee there are closeted LGBT+ Muslims and Muslim women who want the same rights and safety accorded to Muslim men in the immigrant community you’re disparaging. There are regressive asshole Christians doing the same shit so many anti-Muslim bigots claim is exclusive to Islam, but only some hardcore bitter atheists paint conservative Christians and conservative Muslims with the same brush.

I’m an atheist, but from where I’m sitting the problem is controlling dickwads using their faith to justify being controlling dickwads either way, not any particular faith. Religious belief isn’t inherently good or evil, it can be a tool for either. Some people just want to be bigots.

But not Christians. Christians are fucking Saints.

found the white Christian bitch who's scared of them brown-skinned people.

I very much understand where you're coming from on this, and I agree with you. I don't think that means multiculturalism is a failure, but I agree with what you're saying in this comment.

I live in a very multi-cultural city and I love it. But if people refuse to respect the civil liberties and important legal tenets of the country, that's not okay. It's not okay for people who were born here, and it's not okay for immigrants.

I support immigration, and the taking in of refugees. I also firmly support the fair and decent treatment of the immigrants and refugees we receive.

I also won't pretend it doesn't worry me when my country takes in large numbers of immigrants and refugees who are statistically more likely to hold values that seek to undermine my rights as a woman and as a queer person than the citizens of my own country.

Where do you live? Because the biggest regressive religious bloc in the US is comprised of various flavors of white fundamentalist Christian. For Americans, the bigotry is coming from inside the house.

Not in America. And frankly, I would be just as uncomfortable with large numbers of US immigrants coming here at the moment. The thought of the country I live in undergoing the kind of backsliding of democracy and liberal values that yours has is frankly terrifying to me.

If any Americans immigrated to your country, it'd be to escape that. Just like I imagine a good portion of the Muslim immigrants are doing it for.

But then again, you live there, so I think I'd take my chances and pass on immigrating.

Oh gods, I found a pro-Brexiter! Gotta keep England white, amirite?

First off, this is a big leap. There are plenty of Muslims, if this is the culture you are specifically wanting to complain about, that are in favor of women's rights and LGBTQ+ rights.

Second, change comes best within a community and culture. Change does not come as well from without. If you want more Muslims to become in favor of these rights, let moderate Muslims speak up. Give these Muslims the opportunity to work within their own community. This is the best way to get change. If you try to force change from outside a culture, change will be reluctant and resentful and much more slow.

Moderate Muslims exist. They are in fact a large portion of the Muslim community. Give them the opportunity to work within their own culture because they are best suited for that job.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4923 ]

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