fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #703 ]

⌈ Secret Post #703 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 314 secrets from Secret Submission Post #100.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

But people tend to have unreasonably high standards for female characters as opposed to male characters.

Yes, in the course of enjoying a show you may dislike characters of al genders, races and creeds, but when a particular person or a fandom in general overwhelmingly dislikes all, or almost all, of the female characters, you can probably say with a degree of certainty that there's a sexist pattern.

I don't think it's about unreasonably high standards; I find that a lot of female characters just aren't written well or are written flatly/not given that much attention, and that makes it hard to like them. And thus, there's a disproportionate number of female characters being hated on compared to male characters.

So...I mean, I don't hate a female character insomuch as I just hate they way they're being written? A lot of them have potential, but then they come off on screen as...just "Augh, why! T__T" or sometimes they even start off really good, and then...somehow, the writing just takes them downhill. It sucks.

I guess I'm just drawing on my time in the BtVS/AtS fandom where people called misogyny because there were those who found her annoying. But the truth is, she did get annoying as a character later on in the series. Ditto for Dawn. By contrast, I didn't find a lot of character hate* for females that remained well-written: Fred, for one. Faith, Cordelia, Drusilla, Darla. Even in Firefly, there's generally been love for Zoe, Kaylee, River, who're also all quite well-written.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that sometimes, people can set unreasonably high standards and that does get somewhat irritating. It's like, if she gets angry and yells, she's a bitch, etc, etc, and don't get me started on the people who hate on women for getting in between their slash 'ships or something.

But I also don't think the above is the sole cause or even the major cause of fandom female hate. There's a legitimate reason behind it, too, which lies in the actual writing of female characters.

*This is drawing entirely upon my own experience, so it is possible that I just wasn't looking in the right corners of fandom and missed some of the hate.

Can't it be both?

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that sometimes, people can set unreasonably high standards and that does get somewhat irritating. It's like, if she gets angry and yells, she's a bitch, etc, etc, and don't get me started on the people who hate on women for getting in between their slash 'ships or something.

But I also don't think the above is the sole cause

Yes.

And you caught me before I could edit out "major cause" because what I meant by "not major cause" is that they are both equally responsible but that didn't quite come across the way I wanted. DX;;

I'm sure that sometimes that's it. But often the male characters are written just as badly and aren't hated on anywhere near as much (and when they are, it's usually in the form of "oh, isn't it so cute?")

So? The secret op wasn't talking about disliking all or most female characters. They were saying that not loving every female character is not the same thing as hating characters just because they're female, and that some people act like they don't realize that.

And I agree with the secret op on this complaint. When you say you dislike a female character, regardless of who the character is or why you dislike them, people tend to automatically jump on the assumption "you hate her because she's female! you're a mysogynist!"

Treating female characters like they can't possibly be hated or have bad character traits or simply be unlikable simply because they're female is just the flip side of the coin as treating female characters like they're ALWAYS hatable and unlikable simply because they're female.

This, man. Seriously. A couple days ago everyone was jumping down my throat because omg, I don't like Ginny from Harry Potter? MISOGYNIST. Despite the fact that I had a valid reason and explained that I set the same standards for both males and females, OMG MISOGYNIST. YOU DISLIKE EVEN A SINGLE FEMALE CHARACTER, SO THEREFORE YOU MUST DISLIKE ALL OF THEM.

I wish I knew who the secret op was, I'd send them some money. XP

Weren't you the one who was like "I hate Ginny because she's a slut?" Haha, yeah, that's a totally valid reason!

Yep, that's me. Damn, what the shit was I thinking! Hating a character for having a negative personality trait and a shit personality in general? What misogyny!

Dating three guys before getting married to a fourth is a negative personality trait?

Considering it was in the span of like a year and a half, I'd say yes. Not that I expect everyone to have the same high expectations for things that I do, but for some reason no one seems to be able to handle that I don't expect them to have the same opinions or standards, even though I should apparently just have the same as them. At any rate, coupled with the fact that she turns into a total Sue, I think she's a bad character.

A girl having relationships, dating some friends and having fun instead of sitting at home and defending her innocence?

WHAT A WHORE

hint: your pretense at "high standards" just shows how broken you are

There's nothing wrong with having fun, but really, is there any reason to hop between guys? As I explained before, it's not even that she dated a bunch of dudes, it's that she leapt immediately from one to the other, virtually no break in between. If she can get over somebody that fast, I'd barely say that's a relationship.

You're right, I'm totally broken, because I hate one female character. Never mind that there are plenty of others I enjoy, because I hate THIS one, I'm a misogynist. Excellent reasoning.

Oh, okay, so you just hate her because she marries Harry.

I don't care that she marries Harry exactly, since I don't care that much about Harry either, it's the fact that suddenly she's great at Quidditch, she's great at casting spells, she's incredibly "funny", she's a popular girl, everybody wants her nuts, after Hogwarts she joined the female-only Quidditch league... apparently the odds of being awesome at EVERYTHING are really high.

Except she wasn't completely awesome at everything and never stole the spotlight from anybody, meaning she wasn't really a Sue at all, but okay. She was good at quidditch and hexing people - and she's been good at Quidditch since the first time we saw her playing. And then in addition to being an athletic and social girl, she's popular!? Well that's just fucking unrealistic!

I gotta agree. There's a big difference between hating certain characters who are female and hating certain characters *becasue* they are female. I wish more people would figure that out.

Of course, but there's also a big difference between hating a character for valid reasons and hating a character for sexist tropes that have been culturally ingrained as reasons to hate women that don't really stand up to scrutiny.

[ SECRET POST #703 ]

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