fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #709 ]

[ SECRET POST #709 ]

⌈ Secret Post #709 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 416 secrets from Secret Submission Post #102.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Thank you for proving such a lovely example of what I headdesk to.
I like slash, and if there are slash suggestions, fine with it. But when you get people saying someone HAS TO BE GAY and saying that the het shippers for that character are just homophobic, you're watering down the ugliness of homophobia. I've been on both sides of the isle in quite a few fandoms, and there's a whole lot less vocalization from het side.

Homophobia is fast becoming the new Godwin's Law for a lot of fandoms.

And thank you for proving that you're an entitled ass with a persecution complex! Where did they say that people who dislike slash were homophobic? They pointed out that we live in a homophobic society and that this had an effect on what we write. While this may not be on the same scale as a hate crime or Prop 8, that doesn't mean that we can't talk about it.

I've been on both sides of the isle in quite a few fandoms, and there's a whole lot less vocalization from het side.

What does that even mean? Het fans would have no reason to complain about homophobia, so of course you would see less "vocalization".

...Just popping in to say I'm a het fan, and damned straight I complain about homophobia. Because while I like vagina with my cock when it comes to fanfic and fanart, I also think my sister's girlfriend is pretty fucking awesome.

My fandom preferences do not equal my general moral values, thank you very much.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Carry on.

My fandom preferences do not equal my general moral values, thank you very much.

I know that there are plenty of het fans who work hard for GLBT rights. I'm sorry if I implied otherwise. My point was that the subject of homophobia isn't going to come up very much in het fandoms, so there'd be no reason to discuss it.

I think the idea of there being a "het fandom" is fairly ludicrous. What is it, Rule 34 says that there'll be porn of it, no matter what it is? If there's not already, a corollary to that: if it exists, there's slash of it. NO MATTER WHAT.

So for those of us that like het pairings, yeah, we might complain about homophobia because we (for writing/drawing het) get accused of *being* homophobic! It's rather annoying. I'm one of those het fans who works hard for GLBT rights, but I don't write/draw for any slash pairings. I don't have anything against them, I'm not homophobic, but I often get accused of being as such.

Wow, I was even less coherent that I thought. Let's try this again.

The OP said:

But when you get people saying someone HAS TO BE GAY and saying that the het shippers for that character are just homophobic, you're watering down the ugliness of homophobia. I've been on both sides of the isle in quite a few fandoms, and there's a whole lot less vocalization from het side.

Homophobia is fast becoming the new Godwin's Law for a lot of fandoms.

When I said that "het fans don't talk about homophobia" I meant "het fans don't talk about homophobia when they're talking about the characters they ship." However, it seems like a lot of people have interpreted this as "het fans never talk about homophobia, ever, for any reason." There are a lot of het fans who, in one way or another, support GLBT rights. I know that. But I wasn't talking about what people do in real life -- I was talking about discussions of shipping. And there isn't a reason for a het fan to assume that a person who dislikes their pairing is motivated by homophobia.

But there are still a lot of homophobes running around fandom, criticizing slash. And as long as there are people out there who dislike slash because it insults the characters, or perverts their wonderful, pure platonic love, then homophobia will be relevant to slashers. Does this make a little more sense?

Yes, it makes much more sense, except this line:

And there isn't a reason for a het fan to assume that a person who dislikes their pairing is motivated by homophobia.

I'm a het fan. If someone dislikes my pairing, I don't know if they are also a het fan that just likes another pairing more, a gen fan who dislikes pairings of all kinds, or a slash fan who dislikes het-- unless they tell me so. And I would only imagine that a slash fan who encounters someone who dislikes their pairing might have a reason to assume that other person could be homophobic-- I don't see how it could apply to het fans at all. (That said, you're right about how one's fandom activities don't always translate over to RL, and vice-versa. So even in the situation I mentioned, a slash fan SHOULDN'T assume someone is homophobic just because someone doesn't like the pairing. But it does depend on how the person who disliked the pairing vocalized themselves. For example, if something is blatantly marked as Guy A x Guy B, why the heck would anti-slash fan read it in the first place? People do tend to do that just to complain about the existence of slash supposedly "sullying" their pairings, and that MIGHT come across as more than a tad homophobic because, after all, it IS just a pairing in a fandom.)

...It means that usually the ones screaming on being 'persecuted' are the biggest parts of fandom. See Doctor Who. See SPN. See PW.

Of course I don't mean about Homophobia. I mean het fans don't as often troll slash threads and say "OMG, he can't be gay! He's meant for XXXX!"

As for the het= homophobia, you implied it with you "homophobia is celebrated!" comments. Did I say homophobia was A-Ok? No. Did I suggest that some people use homophobia as a catch all defense why they are 'persecuted' by having to see het of their obviously GAY character, no matter how well written? maybe. Sorry for the confusion.

I mean het fans don't as often troll slash threads and say "OMG, he can't be gay! He's meant for XXXX!"

No, they just make passive aggressive comments about how all slash fans are annoying and have to insist on making everyone gay instead :)

LOL exactly!

Of course I don't mean about Homophobia. I mean het fans don't as often troll slash threads and say "OMG, he can't be gay! He's meant for XXXX!"

I've seen it happen as often as people going "OMG YOU ARE HOMOPHOBIC IF YOU HATE SLASH"

...It means that usually the ones screaming on being 'persecuted' are the biggest parts of fandom. See Doctor Who. See SPN. See PW

PW? And I've seen my share of het fans complaining about persecution, usually at the hands of evil slashers who are totally taking over fandom.

I mean het fans don't as often troll slash threads and say "OMG, he can't be gay! He's meant for XXXX!"

No, they don't. Of course, I've never heard of slash fans trolling het threads either. So I guess I'm not a reliable source.

As for the het= homophobia, you implied it with you "homophobia is celebrated!" comments. Did I say homophobia was A-Ok? No.

First of all, that wasn't me. Second, the person didn't say that you, personally, were celebrating homophobia. They were talking about society in general and I think we can agree that our society frequently celebrates homophobia.

Did I suggest that some people use homophobia as a catch all defense why they are 'persecuted' by having to see het of their obviously GAY character, no matter how well written? maybe. Sorry for the confusion.

Other people have already explained the difference between writing slash about presumably heterosexual characters and het about openly gay characters. If you haven't gotten it by now, then you probably never will. However, I'd like to point out that I've seen people write het about canonically gay characters and get celebrated for their "edginess".

I mean het fans don't as often troll slash threads and say "OMG, he can't be gay! He's meant for XXXX!"

Man, we have clearly hung out in different fandoms.

>I mean het fans don't as often troll slash threads and say "OMG, he can't be gay! He's meant for XXXX!"<

Uh last time I checked, they do that. Actually, they do that quite a lot. Post a slash fic in certain fandoms? Will result in shitstorm. Post a slash pic on DA? Depending on the fandom will result in a shitstorm.

No, slashers are not innocent of this, either and yes, some of them are obnoxious as hell, but so are het fans.
Besides, the biggest pairing wars? Were about het pairings. See Zutara vs. Kataang and Harmione vs. everyone else.

Slash fans have their fair share of pairing wars against eachother, too, but non ever reached the size of the het fights.

Het fans would have no reason to complain about homophobia,

lol wut

Sorry, that was really unclear. What I mean is that, while the issue of homophobia could come up during a discussion of a slash pairing (it almost never does, but it's possible). It can be a good source of angst, for one thing or a way to explain why these two characters, who are obviously SO INLUV, haven't gotten together yet, or something along those lines. These things aren't too likely to come up when you're talking about a het pairing. That doesn't mean that het fans don't ever discuss homophobia -- it's just not relevant to het fic the way it is to slash.

Hope that made more sense.

You know, I'm actually genuinely interested in sitting down with you and having a debate or a conversation about this, because the way you're trying to argue your side is just unbelievably painful.

... I'm sorry? I'll try to explain things more clearly: 173's OP made a comment about how slash fans were always going on about homophobia, calling homophobia "the new Godwin's" and said that there was "less vocalization" from het writers. I wasn't really sure what s/he meant and said that there wouldn't be any reason for het writers to call slash writers homophobic. Later the OP said that s/he was talking about fandom persecution in general, which is what I'd expected.

Unfortunately, I'd forgotten the exact context when I came across your comment. I was answering the question "When would homophobia be relevant to slash?" However, I get the feeling that wasn't what you were asking. This is a good lesson in rereading all the comments before replying.

I hope that was a little less painful.

Wow did you miss the point.

WOW

It works both way though; there's plenty of people who scream HAS TO BE STRAIGHT right back at the people who declare everyone is gay.

Personally I like to just pretend everyone is bi, so there's room for both. XP I can't say I've ever bashed a pairing on either side. It just sounds to me like somebody flamed your favorite het pairing, and you're angry about it.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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