fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #711 ]

⌈ Secret Post #711 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 246 secrets from Secret Submission Post #102.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - letters? wtf I don't know ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Much as I hate to say it at the risk of sounding like a pidgeonholing ass

Yes, well.

This attitude bothers me because often I feel like it becomes a matter of "well, I like her, so you can't not like her for any reason I don't deem fit". Yes, I think it's dumb when someone dislikes a character because she "gets in the way" or is "jealous", but when that becomes the default "oh, you must not like her because you like those two guys/are jealous of her", I see a little bit of red.

Really, I just hate generalizations in general.

...eh, you have a point about that.

But the reason it's such a common assumption that the more someone denies something the truer it is is that...it HAPPENS. If a fangirl DOES hate a female character because she hates girls/is jealous/doesn't want anything to get in the way of her OTP, she might not be eyerolled at any less for admitting it, but to me it's slightly less annoying than her trying to over-rationalize it.

But that's just me.

Edited 2008-12-16 22:45 (UTC)

Well, then you have to look at what they're actually saying. Going so far as say that people that examine their own sexism don't become defensive is a crock. I find I have trouble 'just' disliking a female character; it gnaws at me because I worry if I'm being fair. I literally have to sit there and dissect why the character isn't working for me until I feel comfortable that I have a logical basis for it.

So after going through that thought, and saying, "No, I'm really not big on girl X because I feel like this aspect of her character is poorly done", and getting back "you just hate her because you're a fangirl" makes me want to rip my hair out. And it's happened. More than once. It becomes a matter of, "which is worse, implying that I'm just an illogical hysterical woman driven by 'romance' or 'jealousy', or disliking a fictional character?"

Point taken.

I'm not saying everyone has to examine their reasons or sexism (if they have it). I'm not even saying people are right to treat it like a crime when people dislike characters. But when it goes from "I don't like her" to "she sucks so I must bash her"? Well...

The secret was about people getting overly defensive about ~not being sexist~. Or did you miss that?

My problem is with the implication that if you've put some thought into why you dislike a character, and respond with that, you're somehow magically sexist anyway because you 'got defensive'.

It's not magical. I happen to think that someone who is scared that they might be holding a sexist opinion is more likely to get defensive when the opinion is challenged. Having thought about why you dislike a character doesn't preclude you from being part of a sexist pattern within fandom, nor does it stop you from worrying that you might be buying into it.

Someone who acknowledges their place in some of fandom's sexist patterns is going to understand why they're being accused of such, and then agree or disagree, but not flail on their LJ forever about it.

Someone who acknowledges their place in some of fandom's sexist patterns is going to understand why they're being accused of such, and then agree or disagree, but not flail on their LJ forever about it.

Well, yeah. But at this point it sounds like you're talking about someone specific and just using the generalization to mask it, so I'll let it go at that.

I'm thinking of quite a lot of people, in fact. It's annoyingly common in fandom, sorry to say. (Flailing in their LJ, flailing over IM, flailing in a room full of people...)

Unfortunately, throwing out unfounded accusations of sexism or mysogyny is also annoyingly common in fandom (being called mysogynistic simply for disliking how a female character is written, for example), though I will say less so. And while ignoring a problem (like sexism) isn't the solution, assuming things are part of the problem and seeing the problem where it isn't is not the solution either.

I agree with you here. I've had people pull that shit on me. "I don't like this female character." "Gasp! SEXIST!!" "Really? You sure? I only dislike her, and there's plenty of other female characters I DO like." "NOPE, SEXIST." I think it's common for people to get called things they're not, in that respect... and honestly, isn't it a natural defense to deny you're something when you aren't, and the claim is made on little more than a person disliking one character?

I agree with OP that the more you deny something the more likely it seems, but I disagree, as people tend to call others sexist with no real foundation in fandom.

[ SECRET POST #711 ]

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