fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4991 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4991 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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08. [SPOILERS for Umbrella Academy]

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09. [SPOILERS for The Untamed]

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10. [WARNING for discussion of racism]

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11. [WARNING for discussion of pedophilia]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #714.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

What people say: "I should be allowed to do X thing I'm already technically allowed to do and can do at any point"

What they really mean: "other people should not be allowed to judge me for doing X, and I wish I could take away their freedom to do so"

Well, they are entitled to their opinions, no matter how misguided, or loudly it screams privilege or ignorance.

Obviously, it doesn't do any good to just scream at people who just don't get it. And to be fair, I think OP makes a good point about context. But at the same time, I am curious as to why it's more important to people like OP to be allowed to do something that could potentially hurt others and not be judged for it, than it is to take a moment to consider how a historically and abusively loaded word might be offensive to those same people.

NAYRT

Well, they are entitled to their opinions, no matter how misguided, or loudly it screams privilege or ignorance.

They are entitled to their opinions. No one can stop OP from saying the n-word in a song if they want to. But OP is *not* entitled to protection from people who want to judge them or criticize them for doing so, and I think opinions like this often skip over that gap. I think OP knows that they're entitled to their opinion, they just also know they would be criticized for it and don't want to be.

Obviously, it doesn't do any good to just scream at people who just don't get it.

This doesn't seem intuitively obvious to me.

I never said they were entitled to protections from judgment or criticism.

This doesn't seem intuitively obvious to me.

Really? Do you scream at ignorant people a lot? Has that ever made them genuinely see things from your side and changed their opinion, and not out of shame?

I never said they were entitled to protections from judgment or criticism.

I didn't say that you did.

Really? Do you scream at ignorant people a lot? Has that ever made them genuinely see things from your side and changed their opinion, and not out of shame?

As a general principle, I think that if social suasion prevents people from doing things that are bad or socially undesirable, that's a useful practical outcome, even if they don't agree with the underlying rationale. I'm not saying it's the only thing that anyone should ever do. And obviously, describing it as "screaming at people" casts it in a certain negative light. But, yeah, social pressure is fine to me.

Anon that started this thread:

I have to say it is rather odd and telling that the anon you're replying assumes judging someone must necessarily involve "screaming at them" and automatically went there when nothing of the sort was mentioned.

"odd and telling"

Of what, exactly?

That this would be your default course of action when judging people.

It's possible judging people silently, leave them, ignore them, simply disassociate and have nothing to do with them and offer no support for what they are doing. There are many possible actions to take once you've judged someone, and assuming people would jump immediately to screaming says more about you than about the anon you're replying to.

Really? Do you scream at ignorant people a lot? Has that ever made them genuinely see things from your side and changed their opinion, and not out of shame?

A+

Shame is the most misguided form of persuasion imaginable. It's repulsive, actually.

That seems pretty harsh to me.

It doesn't seem that different from the whole broad concepts of courtesy and politeness and manners, and people mostly don't seem to have a problem with it in those concepts. Maybe you do though, I don't know.

So you believe shaming people is polite?

I think shame is how people absorb the ideas of polite behavior and how politeness is enforced. I don't think politeness would exist without shame.

I think politeness arises from empathy.

But you do you.

You sound like the kind of person who in 2020 is still going on about how we have to understaaaaaaaand Trump voters.

Nah.

You can understand Trump voters while disagreeing with everything they believe.

Remembering people are human is not a bad thing, nor does it mean you throw common sense out the window.

NAYRT

I agree. Someone who is shameless is 100% not polite. Find me a shameless person who is polite - you can't.

as it's well known we just politely told the nazi's to stop killing people and they did, no death or shame was necessary in order to make them stop.

...shame didn't make Nazis stop doing anything. Military takeover did.

I'm actually ok with military force being used against white supremacists lol.

AYRT

I don't know what comment you're replying to but I don't think you're replying to mine, which did not reference or suggest any sort of action or judgment, much less screaming.

Simply pointed out what OP is really saying they want: not to be allowed to do something, but to take away others' freedom to judge them.

I was speaking generally. I am aware of what you were pointing out.

However, it seems I mistook the person who replied to me as being you, so I withdraw that particular reply. Not that it matters at this point.

in my experience, a lot of the "don't tell me what to do" conservatives I know actually have a very authoritarian mindset. They assume someone is trying to force a worldview and a behavior on them, because they can't imagine that good manners don't always exist to enforce control but to remind us of things like ethics and empathy and that everyone deserves to feel comfortable. They're also usually pretty decent people who think they shouldn't be asked to stop doing certain things because they "mean well" and honestly cannot fathom the idea that many people do not do those things innocently. Oh and other people have had a lifetime of having to put up with a constant barrage of people doing/saying that thing that was meant "innocently".

> conservatives
> usually pretty decent people who

lol

da

Yes, there are conservatives who are decent people.

But I guess it's just easier to categorize people into groups like humans and monsters, isn't it?

[ SECRET POST #4991 ]

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