fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #721 ]

[ SECRET POST #721 ]

⌈ Secret Post #721 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Hiroshi Tamaki;Gackt;Tadayoshi Okura]

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103.

[Rumor Has It/Simon and Garfunkel]

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104.

[Chip 'n Dale]

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105.

[Sarah McLachlan, "World on Fire"]

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106.

[Phoenix Wright Justice for All]

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107.

[17 Kids and Counting; Jon and Kate plus 8]

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108.

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109.

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110.

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111.

[Persona 4]

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112.

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113.

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114.

[Smallville]

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115.

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116.

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117.

[Tiny Toons]

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118.

[Alicia Sacramone]

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119.

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120.

[House]

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121.

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122.

[Dungeons and Dragons; Mage the Ascension]

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123.

[Merlin]

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124.

[Noel & Michael Fielding; The Mighty Boosh]

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125.

[Watchmen, The Day The Earth Stood Still]

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126.

[Shawn Spencer from Psych]

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127.

[Merlin, Torchwood]

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128.

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129.

[House]

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130.

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131.

[Victoria Beckham/Posh Spice]

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132.

[Temeraire Series]

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133.

[Ace Attorney]

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134.

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135.

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136.

[Captain America/Iron man]

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137.

[Fullmetal Alchemist (Winry), Serenity (Kaylee), Final Fantasy X (Rikku), Atlantis (Audrey)]

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138.

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139.

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140.

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141.

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142.

[It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia]

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143.

[Digimon Tamers, Juri Kato]

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144.

[Torchwood, Dr. Horrible, Metal Gear Solid]

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145.

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146.

[Onani Master Kurosawa]

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147.

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148.

[Supernatural]

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149.

[Gossip Girl]

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150.

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151.

[Ferris Bueller's Day Off]

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152.

[Death Note: the Last Name]

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153.

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154.

[Gundam00]

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155.

[Robin Hood: Guy/Sheriff]

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156.

[bexless's MCR Priestverse (I Have Been All Things Unholy and Staring Through the Demons)]

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157.

[Digimon original series]

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158.

[In the Gloaming/Robert Sean Leonard]

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159.

[Candy Boy ONA]

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160.

[Soul Eater]

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161.

[Gurren Lagann]

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162.

[Sherlock Holmes/"Sherlock"]

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163.

[Supernatural]

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164.

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165.

[Genevieve Cortese, Wildfire, Supernatural]

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166.

[Mai HiME, Okuzaki Akira]

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167.

[Sweeny Todd movie]

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168.

[Sean Astin/Elijah Wood]

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169.

[Silent Hill: Homecoming]

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170.

[Trigun, Wolfwood]

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171.

[Moulin Rouge/Sound of Music]

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172.

[Avatar the Last Airbender, Fullmetal Alchemist, Bleach, Naruto]

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173.

[Mock the Week; Frankie Boyle]

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174.

[Whose Line Is It Anyway?, QI]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #103.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Is there really any difference between using fertility treatments to have a lot of children and just pumping out a lot of children in rapid succession?

Were they using fertility treatments for having lots of children or did they want just one child when they went through them? I mean you go in there hoping that you can get a baby, not oh I hope I can give birth to quintuplets or whatever.

So yes, I think there is a difference.

From what I've heard, Kate wanted multiples and deliberately got pregnant at a time when she knew she was likely to have them. Even though this meant disobeying doctor's orders and lying to her husband (who, alledgedly, never wanted that many kids in the first place).

Honestly, the only think really contemptuous about that, if it is true would be the lying to the husband thing, but then again I don't think having large families is a crime nor is it one that the families deserve to be ostracized for.

I don't know these people, I don't know their reasons for what they do and as long as the children are well taken care of then I am not going to care that much. The only thing that I find even remotely reprehensible about the whole thing is how it is being put on the television, but the actual having of babies, while not something I support or encourage, I am not going to condemn it either.

Also my understanding with infertility treatments is that while, yes, you are more likely to have multiple births you are still more likely to have just one (and if it is a multiple it is mostly twins) and you are also likely to not to have any children from it, so even if she wanted multiple births, she couldn't count on it, also the doctors advocated a reduction, but I am not going to fault someone who is against that kind of thing. A lot of people aren't ok with abortions which is really what the doctors wanted them to do.

Edited 2008-12-26 22:48 (UTC)

Honestly, the only think really contemptuous about that, if it is true would be the lying to the husband thing, but then again I don't think having large families is a crime nor is it one that the families deserve to be ostracized for.

Fair enough. However, a lot of people are defending the Gosselin's by saying that they never planned to have a big family. It was an 'accident', so we shouldn't judge them. I thought that people might change their minds if they knew that might not be the case.

A lot of people seem to think that the Gosselin's had in vitro fertilization. They didn't. Kate took huge amounts of fertility drugs and had a doctor monitor her ovulation cycles. One month, she became overly fertile and her doctor specifically told her to have protected sex, because the chance of conceiving was high. Multiple births are very dangerous to both the mother and the children, so doctors tend to advise against them. And, like I said, Kate ignored the doctor's advice and lied to her husband because she wanted "multiples".

I'm not going to address the morality of fertility treatments, or whether or not Jon and Kate are good parents. I'm just saying that the Gosselins (or, more accurately, Kate Gosselin) planned to have a big family, just like the Duggers. Their methods were different, but the result is the same.

((I don't know why I'm doing this. I shouldn't care about the Gosselins, or about who said what, why can't I just play my Puzzle Quest, I've seen six episodes..))

Are you the same mouse (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/229951.html?thread=100689727#t100689727) from over there? Because in this discussion you are presenting this information as fact, while the mouse over there admits it's just rumors and speculation.

And if this is a fact... sources please? Who would tell you this? Her doctor, risking her/his license? Kate, over a thunderclap and much cackling?

And, on a side-note, but did you post on the Jon and Kate forums on TWoP before it got shut down?

I don't know why I'm doing this. I shouldn't care about the Gosselins, or about who said what, why can't I just play my Puzzle Quest, I've seen six episodes.

Honestly, I don't know why I'm here. But people keep saying things that reminds me of gossip I've heard and I can't keep it to myself.

Are you the same mouse from over there? Because in this discussion you are presenting this information as fact, while the mouse over there admits it's just rumors and speculation

Yep, same one. And you're right -- it isn't clear enough that these are rumors. Sorry, I'm having fun dishing the dirt. I don't get a lot of opportunities to talk about them online, even though a few people on my flist watch the show.

And if this is a fact... sources please?

Oh, nobody official. Just people who knew them, or worked with them or who knew somebody who knew or worked with them. The typical gossip sources. I have heard it from a few different people, if that means anything. I only know one person who has actually had ongoing contact with any of the Gosselin's and she's never mentioned this.

And, on a side-note, but did you post on the Jon and Kate forums on TWoP before it got shut down?

I didn't even know there was one. I haven't been to TWoP since 2003, or so. Is the board still there, or was it purged? I'm kinda curious...

There was a board, but it got purged from TWoP because there's something about the Gosselins that brings out the crazy. Posters were calling Protective Services, the Gosselin's churches, and were posting the children's school schedules. Not to mention some of the emotions, especially hostility towards Kate, were very passionate.

And thank you for repeating that it's just rumors here. I just commented because you said that some people (such as myself) were defending the Gosselins because the pregnancy was unplanned, and that it actually was not.

I didn't see myself as defending so much as... expositioning. The Gosselins are NOT something I care to debate about. But since you were implying that I had been dispensing bad information, I had to ask for your sources. While feeling vaguely ashamed while doing it, because screaming "You do not know the history of Kate Gosselin! I do!" was not how I was planning on spending Boxing Day.

Happy Holidays.

There was a board, but it got purged from TWoP because there's something about the Gosselins that brings out the crazy. Posters were calling Protective Services, the Gosselin's churches, and were posting the children's school schedules.

Wow. People really blurred the line between TV and real life there. I try to avoid mentioning that I live near them in my own lj, because they never explicitly state what town they're in.

I didn't see myself as defending so much as... expositioning. The Gosselins are NOT something I care to debate about. But since you were implying that I had been dispensing bad information, I had to ask for your sources. While feeling vaguely ashamed while doing it, because screaming "You do not know the history of Kate Gosselin! I do!" was not how I was planning on spending Boxing Day.

I understand. And you were right: I was presenting rumors as facts, which is a pretty terrible thing to do.

However, a lot of other people are defending the Gosselin's because they only have a big family "by accident". There's at least one comment like that on every page of this post. If it had just been you, I probably would've scrolled past. But people kept saying it over and over, and I couldn't resist mentioning this bit of gossip. The fact that I don't like this argument (if the Gosselin's are "better" than the Duggers, it's because they're not members of a cult) made me a little more zealous than I should've been.

And have a happy Boxing Day! Or whatever's left of it, anyway.

There's a TIME when you're likely to get pregnant with multiples? I thought it was all or nothing.

As the sextuplets were a surprise (according to Jon and Kate, they were just trying for one more), I would say yes. While multiples are not uncommon in fertility treatments (first Jon and Kate had twins), six was certainly not expected.

So they were taking fertility drugs because they were having problems getting pregnant, or what? Fertility drugs can have a tendency to produce multiple births.

It's not just about taking fertility drugs. I don't know the circumstances, but when people receive invitro fertilization, the doctors always implant multiple embryos because typically multiple embryos fail. So they implant six with the expectation that five will fail. (And it is a really high failure rate, hence the tendency to implant multiple embryos, also because it's expensive as hell procedure. This article here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_fertilisation) cites a 27 percent live birth rate.)

Having all the embryos take is highly unusual. They'd be more likely to have one kid survive out of all of them than all six.

I don't care for either of the programs, personally, but there's really no comparison between two pregnancies which unintentionally lead to eight kids, and 18 kids intentionally.

Edited 2008-12-26 22:40 (UTC)

They went through fertility treatments because they could not get pregnant naturally. And when they found out they were going to have sextuplets, doctors did suggest selective reduction, but they decided against it, which I really can't blame them for. I myself would not feel comfortable choosing which of my fetuses get to live, and which don't.

So, they had them. And stopped. The Duggars just gave birth to their 18th child, which is just mind boggling.

Yes, they had trouble getting pregnant on their own, so they used fertility treatments. They didn't have fertility treatments because they wanted to have a billion babies.

Pretty much every episode describes their financial woes and shows Kate and Jon being run ragged. It certainly doesn't look like they were prepared for a big family. According to my Google-Fu, the odds of having sextuplets is 1 in 3,393,040,643.

Link (http://www.fanpop.com/spots/jon-and-kate-plus-8/quiz/show/77695). The source is not academic, so you can take it with a grain of salt if you wish.

But they had two kids before they had trouble getting pregnant? A few other people commented that they already had children before deciding to have a third.

I agree it's not the same thing.

No, they had to use fertility treatments to get pregnant the first time as well, as Kate couldn't get pregnant otherwise. They had a set of twins, and then later when they tried for one more (they acknowledged the small chance that they might end up with twins again), they had six.

Cue flails.

Ok, I love exposition and everything, but I think I spending too much time talking about some stranger's uterus. I hope I answered your questions correctly, I actually only saw a handful of episodes.

You guys were great at answering my questions, thanks. I agree that both families aren't really going about it the same way.

she had to use treatments both times. they DID explore adoption before the treatments, but they were too young and just married that they weren't approved.

kate has PCOS, which can cause issues getting pregnant naturally because of the cysts on the ovaries. lots of women, when finding out that they have PCOS, are told that they'll never be able to have children. as a woman who has a risk of having PCOS (last doctor visit told me no, but if i don't start taking care of myself, it's a possibility), i give major props to them to try anything to have kids. i would go the same route as kate to get treatments in order to have a family. some people on treatments have one and done, while others have multiples, while others still don't have any. so i think that they're blessed that they were able to have even one, let alone eight.

but yeah, this is vastly different than the dugger's. john and kate have said they're done, and really i don't blame them. michelle just needs to close her legs.

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[ SECRET POST #721 ]

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