fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5029 ]

[ SECRET POST #5029 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5029 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #719.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

After yesterdays discussions about beta readers, I find myself a bit stuck as to what to do.

The conclusion from yesterday's threads seems to be that good beta readers are usually also freelance editors who, quite rightly, charge for their services.

My problem is that I cannot afford to shell out for an editing job just for my hobby, but I still want to get better.

So how can I go about doing that without other people's input?? All suggestions gratefully received.

I am one of those betas who does freelance editing for published writers and I charge for my work. That said - I edit friends' work for free, and they do the same for mine. It's not easy finding a good (and free) beta, but it's not impossible. Unfortunately, it takes time and effort to cultivate relationships like that. I sort of stumbled across my betas - our friendships began in fandom (but we were all people who wrote original fiction) and even after we all drifted away from fandom, the friendships have lasted well over a decade.

I'd recommend reading a lot, not just for enjoyment but with a critical eye. What do you want to improve about your own writing? Look for that in the things you read, look for people whose writing skills are strong in areas that you're most interested in. Likewise, find people whose writing style, subject, etc. are a good match with your own. Put your own writing out there and let it be known that you're open to constructive criticism. If/when you receive it, be gracious about the concrit regardless of whether or not you agree. You don't have to take every beta's advice or agree with their feedback, but in those cases, a polite thank you for their time would be good. Then you move on and keep looking for feedback that clicks with you - you look for that person whose advice you read and think, "Oh, my god YES, that's it exactly!"

Good luck.

If/when you receive it, be gracious about the concrit regardless of whether or not you agree. You don't have to take every beta's advice or agree with their feedback, but in those cases, a polite thank you for their time would be good.

Wise words, OP. I relentlessly strike people off the list of those I'll beta for because an high proportion of them don't even bother to say thanks. Rude bastards. That's hours of my time and energy I can't spare, gone for good.

If you can't strike up a good relationship with a beta, by beta-reading for them, being polite and friendly, etc etc (and this is difficult, I know, I was damn lucky with mine) - write, write, write. That was Ursula LeGuin's advice and it's good, though a pain. She said the way to learn the tuba is to get a tuba and some tuba music and to practice, possibly a long way from anyone else; but practice is the way to do it.

Oh, and if you can join a writing group, either in person or online, that helps; you can get people picking up on different aspects of your work, though it takes time to build trust. Posting online if you'[re writing fanfic serves much the same function. Most of us are lucky if we get a smattering of comments but they all help.

That's the minimum baseline, IMO. Even if I don't agree with everything my betas say, I always thank them profusely for their time and work because I know for a fact they've got plenty of other things to do. They're doing me a favor by agreeing to look at my writing and analyze it - which isn't a quick, easy job if it's done right.

Also agree that practice is key.

I forgot to add... if you cannot find a good beta or are still in the process of looking, then IMO the best thing you can do for yourself is to read quality writing. We all read stuff for pleasure - that's not what I'm talking about. Look for the kind of writing you want to emulate in terms of quality. Then read it with your own editor's hat on to figure out WHY that writing works for you, and HOW it accomplishes what it does.

Read in the genre you want to write in, but read a wide variety as well. That includes non-fiction. All of that stuff goes into your writing, it's like being on a highly nutritious diet to maximize your physical performance.

(Cozy werewolf anon) I am a writer who is also a dev editor and mentioned we charge.

If you want to get better at writing, first, you have to write. Writing takes practice. Secondly, you need to read and analyze what you read. I'm not entirely talking on a technical level, but at least on a substance level. What do you enjoy about the books you read? What are techniques such as tense, POV, structure, character types, these authors employ?

Reading is part of a writer's job. Especially to keep your 'voice' modern if you want to traditionally publish. (No. You can't write like Tolkien anymore. Sigh.)

Thirdly, you can read writing advice books and try to apply what you learn. Or watch master writing classes. Margaret Atwood has a class. Sanderson has a class. Stephen King has written a writing book. Tumblr is full of writing advice, follow HeyWriters and from that one, you'll find a bunch of writing blogs they reblog.(Hey, I post writing advice to tumblr, ginnyzero, tagged under writing advice and writing tumblr.) Follow professional writers/editors on twitter. Not the self-published ones, but the trad published writers and editors. They'll slip good advice from time to time. Writingcommunity on twitter is a cranky mess. Facebook is worse.

My favorite writing advice book that kept me from doing so many bad things is called "Writer's Little Book of Wisdom" by John Long. I'm 99% sure it is out of print. It's small and the advice is in bullet point digestible bits. You might find it on thriftstore.com or other used book sites.

I've also read William Zinsser's "On Writing Well." A classic.
My Narrative Storytelling textbook at Academy of Art was "What if? Writing exercises for Fiction Writers" by Anne Bernays and Pamela Painter. My teacher's advice was "No Vampires!" (So I wrote a story about a werewolf, b/c I am petty.)
For LONG series work, I recommend "Writing the Fiction Series" by Karen S. Weisner
"No Plot? No Problem!" By Chris Baty is a book to help writing NaNo.

As a writer, I took one thing and I worked on it until I was happy with it. Small bites. Dialogue. Description. Conflict. Character building. World building. Break it down into easy pieces and focus on it until you're happy with it and then take on the next bit. But you write, write and write more, until you develop a gut instinct and eye for what's going on.

Then, you edit! Because a first draft is cake ingredients and is supposed to be bad. It's just getting the story out in word vomit. Editing is what makes the story tasty. It makes sure everything is mixed and baked right and decorated!

You can also find a writer group or "make friends" with another writer you admire in fandom and hope it can turn into a mutually beneficial writing relationship. (It can happen!)

If you aren't going to uni for writing (I didn't) it takes longer and a lot of pro-activity on your part to improve. It took me over 10 years to write an original novel I was proud of. For a very long time I was all "I will only write fanfic FOREVER!" Then I worked hard on some internal mental/emotional issues and here I am, writing both and self-publishing.

Ok, lots of advice there. Hope it helps.

I very much feel that simply writing a lot, and giving it your all when you do write, is the #1 way to get better.

That's not to say an excellent beta reader can't do a lot for someone who is receptive to their help/advice. But if you just keep writing, and always challenge yourself to write your story to the best of your abilities, I think you're already doing the one major thing you need to be doing in order to improve.

Great suggestions in the above comments.

Three things I'll add:
1. Subscribe to the

betaplease comm here on Dreamwidth.
2. If you do Discord, join the Yuletide server.
3. Nancy Kress' Beginnings, Middles, Ends is an excellent little book.

Imma have 'ta go back 'n check wut y'all people been talkin' 'bout, 'parrently.

No. Beta's do not have to be paid. Fanfiction is not a legit business, nor should it be. It's a hobby and an interest/obsession between a sometimes not so common community who all benefit off of the communities interaction, conversations, and contributions, said community could not live without. This goes double with fanfic. The prospect that personal and self interacting interests have been commercialized is the ultimate form of pathetic to me. The ultimate for of wrong, tbh.
Betas mean basically nothing to most people depending on the fandom, no reader really cares if you have one, and the interpretation that they should be some sort of mandatory device is the most pretentious thing I've ever heard.

To some they're just friendly spell/grammar checkers. Others, they're so self-important they decide that they have right to use the author as their own writing device.

Like fuck you guys, writers who don't get paid don't need to pay some entitled asshole to check over and point out some flaws (that the writer could even do themselves most of the time) for some disgustingly delusional fans who don't actually deserve the content they demand.

Yes, you should go back and actually read the discussion before responding to it, because you've made some incorrect assumptions about what people were saying and you're insulting people based on those incorrect assumptions.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #5029 ]

Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

SA

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice

Re: Looking for writing/editing advice