fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5033 ]

[ SECRET POST #5033 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5033 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04. https://i.imgur.com/jliRtO9.png
[OP marked NSFW]

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05. [WARNING for discussion of sexual assault]

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06. [WARNING for discussion of underage/grooming]

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07. [WARNING for discussion of possible sexual harassment]

[Ryan Haywood of Achievement Hunter]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #719.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I do get where you're coming from, I really do. I abhor the moral high ground superiority schtick that people grab onto with veganism and vegetarianism - and I AM a vegan and have been for decades. I've always been chill with other people's choices, like the info is out there and we each have to decide and shouting at people isn't going to force them to do what you think is right.

However, at the same time you can't say that the two things are equivocal. If you're looking at climate change, then veganism is in fact the superior option because it dramatically reduces the amount of GHGs associated with your food. Apply that to the whole human population where veganism or flexitarianism is a viable lifestyle, and suddenly we have a fighting chance. Unlike now, when we are pretty much screwed. If you want scientific corroboration for that go out and look it up because at this point it's a message being shouted by most of the scientific community including the IPCC.

We have definitely evolved to have animals in our diet. I have no beef with that (no pun intended). But at the same time, the meat industry is absolutely fucking horrific. We're very shielded from its realities in day to day life, but if you had to watch the process from beginning to end I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be very upset by it and find it ethically questionable.

Now again, how much you incorporate these things into the decisions you make about your diet is very much up to you. Purely objectively though, I'm afraid plant milks are a superior choice. It's just smug people posting annoying memes on facebook obfuscates that fact.

You do know the deforestation and shit that goes into things like almond milk right? Not saying there isn't issues with the meat industry, but acting like all plant based options are perfect or even not as bad is a bit naive.

You are aware that exactly the same issues exist with cattle farming?

Of course i'm aware. I'm speaking in very generalised terms. Obviously not all plant milks are equal and the production of them is not good for the environment, as with every single thing we eat that has been produced by.industrial farming. Even organic farming is not zero footprint.

The point here was plant milks vs cows milk and their relative contributions to climate change - the greatest threat to humanity and most of the ecosystems on earth.

Yeah, almond anything is absolutely horrid for the environment and it really irritates me when people ignore this fact.

It's also not vegan at all, unless you somehow don't count bees as animals. They get carted around from plantation to plantation to pollinate the trees and die in masses.

NAYRT--by this argument, vegans can only eat wind and non-honeybee pollinated food. They'd all starve.

You wanna help bees? Buy honey from local beekeepers, plant native plants (native bees are way more threatened than apis mellifera), and push to ban neonicotinoid pesticides.

I've been a vegetarian for 25+ years, and this is bs. Does the average American eat too much meat? Yep! Are CAFOs sustainable or humane? Fuck no! Are slaughterhouse working conditions inhumane and super dangerous? You betcha!

Is there a lot of marginal land under intense cultivation using unsustainable petroleum-derived fertilizers, pesticides that were originally developed as weapons of war, and depleted groundwater reservoirs? Fuck yes there are.

Are the agricultural workers who harvest our produce treated like garbage? Hoo boy.

Do monocultures destroy entire ecosystems and leave weird green deserts with no bugs or animals behind? Do big businesses drive small farms out of business as they seek to control every aspect of food production? Obviously.

And that's just the US.

I have a moral objection to eating animals no matter how great their lives were prior to their ending up on a plate, but pasturing ruminants on marginal land can actual restore soil and make non-chemically derived fertilizer.

Killing off or sterilizing all the world's domestic livestock and letting them die out would leave agriculture massively fucked even if we composted every human turd (and every human corpse) from here to doomsday, not to mention lead to widespread malnutrition.

Anon-above-you. Thank you for this, I am actually meat eater so I don't know a ton about the impacts of a lot vegetarian/vegan options, but as someone who's lactose intolerant, I've been trying to stay away from almond milk because of all the bad impacts I've heard it has.

What you're saying essentially is what's better than plant milks is no milk at all of any kind and I don't disagree with you.

The statement the OP made is that plant milks were not superior. And in the simple question of cows milk vs plant milk that's not true for the reasons I stated. QED.

AYRT--I'm not saying that no milk at all is better than plant or animal milk, you nut.

In addition to not eating meat for most of my life I've also always taken public transit or walked. If we're talking about mitigating climate change specifically, we need to stop guzzling fossil fuels before we get to nitpicky shit about diets. Yes, conventional (and organic, thanks to transit) agriculture uses a lot, but it's just one part of the enormous fossil fuel slick driving (pun intended) climate change.

"Does the average American eat too much meat?"

The thing is, it isn't even the average American that's causing the problems. Studies have shown that it's something like only 10% of all the meat eaters who are having the most impact because they consume far, far more meat than the average person.

Oh, you're a fact free vegan. Cool.

Most plant milks are horrible for the environment from both a natural resources standpoint and a ecological sustainability standpoint, and any brownie points they get for not off-gassing when they're on the tree/stalk are more than lost in the process of shipping them around the world so vegans in Minnesota and London can enjoy their Almond Dream. Unlike cows and goats, you can't grow almonds and coconuts anywhere at any time of year.

When you factor in the human rights violations inherent in producing your superior vegan food, suddenly your moral high ground is a graveyard full of dead migrants and indigenous children who died of starvation.

Drink your plant milk because you prefer the taste. If you're concerned about climate change, support your local agriculture and help elect politicians that will hold the oil companies and other corporations accountable for their actions.

^So much this.

I always wonder why people don't consider just... not drinking any milk at all?

I once new a guy who thought it was just so weird that people drank milk as a beverage at all and wouldn't drink any kind of milk, including plant milk, because he thought that was equally weird as drinking cow's milk. It made me realize it is kind of weird. Yes, there is the calcium, but if you're drinking calcium-fortified plant milk, why not just drink water and take a supplement? It's the same thing.

Animal milk and plant milk are not exactly equivalent in cooking, anyway, given that plant milk doesn't have the acidity of cow's milk. I'm not a chemist or trained chef so I can't say exactly when it matters if you swap, but I do know from experience that if you are making pancakes with a little baking soda as a leavener, they won't rise as much if you use plant milk. You have to add a little lemon juice or other acid and at that point, why use plant milk at all? Just use water. If you need to add some fat, use a bit of vegetable oil. (I don't think most plant milks are as fatty as whole cow's milk, anyway, except for the kind of coconut milk that isn't meant for drinking, which is probably still not equivalent because I bet it's more fatty!) You can cook oatmeal with water, too.

Obviously, that doesn't account for things like what you pour over your dry cereal or put in your coffee or cheese. But, as they say, there is no such thing as truly ethical grocery shopping anyway, so everyone just do your best within the bounds of what makes sense for where you live, what taste you like, what you can afford, and your own dietary needs and sense of morality.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #5033 ]

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