[ SECRET POST #5059 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5059 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 16 secrets from Secret Submission Post #724.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT That's probably exactly the reason--we are absolutely looking at this from two different standpoints.

I guess I just kind of wish that people on your end, the endless-fap-material-end, would maybe be more cognizant that while that's universal for them it's not the entirety of fandom engagement as a whole. I, personally, have a lot more patience for "eh, yeah, but it's hot to me" than for "um it's NOT fetishistic/homophobic/what-have-you, actually". Like, I read some good old porn fic when I'm in the mood, too, but if someone says they find my favorite xeno-smut squicky, I'm not going to tell them that actually it's really empowering--I'm going to say "eh, fair enough, not for everyone". I personally like it because it removes the human element entirely and just focuses on the sex, which is great for me, but that's my business and greater trends of fetishization of marginalized people march on regardless of my personal feelings. It's porn, just like ABO is porn. It does have a specific purpose, and that's fine, but it doesn't make ABO less homophobic when analyzing it from a non-fap-material perspective.

Does that differentiation make any sense at all? I'm sorry if it's rambly.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Not rambly at all, especially compared to my comments!

I see what you mean: if I'm analyzing ABO from a realistic perspective (evaluating its homophobia, unrealisticness, problematic representation, etc.) (a "social justice" perspective), I don't really want to hear "actually, it's really woke though" (a social justice response) -- because it's not. And the "*shrug* it's hot" (a fap material response) is slightly less annoying, BUT it sidesteps the issue entirely (whether it's homophobic or not).

The example you gave is interesting, though. I've never seen people criticize xeno kink for having problematic real-world implications -- I don't think it has any -- but imagine a world where people did. If people regularly said things like, "I judge people who write xeno kink -- it just reinforces problematic gender roles," or "Why do people like xeno? It just seems like writing people out of character? Why would people WANT that?" (or something along those lines), how would you respond? Imagine for the sake of argument that those criticisms in this world are fair -- xeno kink for some reason does tap into traditional gender roles or frequently involves writing people out of character.

In my experience, the question itself puts people in an awkward position. By asking the question, people seem to imply that "because it's hot" isn't actually a relevant or sufficient answer, because they're asking that about an obvious kink/porn genre, so unless they're really thick, the answer they're looking for isn't "it's hot." If the person criticizing xeno kink also mentioned that it was "fetishization", it DEFINITELY doesn't seem like "it's hot" is the right response to this person -- they clearly already know that people find it hot! Would you still respond to people with "eh, fair enough, not for everyone."?

When someone combines these three elements: (1) acknowledging something is a porn trope, (2) pointing out that it is problematic, and (3) asking why people like it anyway, you're just stuck thinking that they want some kind of countervailing social justice rationalization. You're left feeling like people are saying you need a social justice reason in order to continue engaging in that kink. So I don't think it's surprising when people criticize a kink for social justice reasons that they get social justice reasons in response, even if those social justice reasons are fairly weak.

So yeah, that's why I think people tend to respond to people criticizing problematic kinks with either "but [social justice reason]!" or "*shrug* it's hot" or "but it's hot, let me explain why" -- none of which actually negate the problematicness of the kink. If the kink were not problematic (like xeno) there wouldn't really be much more to say either, other than those above responses, and nothing really changes on either side. So I'm not sure what response people who say these kinds of criticisms want. Maybe just, "Yep, it's problematic."?

[(Anonymous)]

Just want to point out that A/B/O IS a form of xeno. Alpha and omega humans are fantasy creatures just like werewolves and Vulcans (probably the two types of creature most influential in developing it). On a scale from the most humanlike xeno creature to ELDRITCH TENTACLE MULTI-DIMENSIONAL INCOMPREHENSIBLE, they're very close to the humanlike side - but they're not mundane real-world realistic humans and shouldn't be considered the same. Xeno is a spectrum.