fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #729 ]

[ SECRET POST #729 ]

⌈ Secret Post #729 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Doctor Why]

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[Hetalia]

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[Failure to Launch]

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[Megaman]

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[Stargate Atlantis]

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[Death Note, here we go again]

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[Hetalia]

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[Star Trek: DS9; Odo/Kira Nerys]

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[Revolutionary Girl Utena]

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[Supernatural]

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[A Christmas Story]

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[CLAMP]

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[TVXQ: Micky Yoochun & Xiah Junsu]

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[Blackpool]

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[Junjou Romantica]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 19 pages, 459 secrets from Secret Submission Post #105.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You're not being heckled.

The anon above is using privilege in the same sense as white privelege, male privelege, heterosexual privilege etc. It's a term which refers to the way in which people who don't fit into marginalised category X have the privelege of being blind to certain injustices which confront those who are in X daily. (The privelege of being given the benefit of the doubt by the police, the privilege of being interviewed by people of your own race or gender, the privilege of seeing yourself represented in mainstream entertainment in a positive light.)

One of the most typical examples of privilege in any debate about a marginalised group is that when somebody says "There is a serious, ingrained, and systematic problem with the portrayal of people who are X" somebody will inevitably jump in and say "Not-X occasionally has a hard time of it too! Talk about that!" thus derailing the initial very important conversation.

In the long term, this can lead to people getting so annoyed and exhausted by the diversion that the necessary conversation about the initial problem just never gets held, or only gets held among people who already understand the privilege problem.

The problem of representation of female body types in the media is real. It is not the same for thin people as for fat people - there is a huge amount of fat-hate aimed at women in the MSM. Women who are the 'accepted' size and shape and are happy with that are not being oppressed just because many women are unhappy with the fact that it is your body type (physically unatainable to vast numbers of women) which is being pushed on them as the only valid body for happiness.

Hurray for you that you feel good about your body now. Our culture works damned hard every single day to make sure you are in the vast minority in having that privilege, and you will be treated better than other women because of it (having been heavier previously, I'd bet money you've already noticed that).

You are privileged. Examining your privilege doesn't mean feeling guilty or bad about that. It means recognising that you have a benefit in life denied to others because of ingrained cultural prejudices. It means attempting to be empathetic, allowing those who are marginalised the space to speak and the freedom to be angry. It means trying to be an ally.

I'm really, really sure the anon wasn't heckling.

Wait a second, just wait a fucking second. I have the nerve to try and accept myself. I'm not putting ANYONE down on purpose (except for those who would put me down). If you look above, I've said that SIZE DOESN'T MATTER. It's how you treat people. I don't care what size someone else is, but if you treat me like shit I'll do the same to you.

And you know what? Right now I'm too pissed off to care about privilege or anything like that. I don't see you talking to the anons who are making their side look bad. You've actually presented your argument logically and calmly - and politely as well.

I am a woman, and a minority, and therefore in some of the marginalized groups. Excuse me for not being in a third and trying to accept myself regardless of what body type I am. And frankly, I'm agreeing with the person above now. Maybe that's wrong of me, but right now? I've largely stopped caring. Maybe when I've cooled down I'll take another look at this.

Sorry if I'm being rude, I'm just tired of shit like the above. (Icon is also not directed at you.)

Edited 2009-01-04 19:46 (UTC)

(same anon as the one to whom your post replied)

You're clearly quite angry about this, and I don't want to push you into talking about this any more if you would rather walk away, cause I don't want to be causing anyone Internet aggravation. But if you do feel like coming back to this, I'd be really interested to understand why you're so angry about this, because I don't quite get it.

You see, I think I can understand the cross-communication and the anger than led to the "Examine your privilege" post above. The original secret makes a point that probably most people would agree with about it being wrong to exclude any kind of body type from what constitutes a 'Real Woman'. But then she tags on the rider "Try being equal to skinny people".

I suspect that that triggered a lot of people. Because, as I was trying to explain above, I don't think I have ever seen a post about how under-represented or maligned heavier women are in the media without the thread being taken over by people going "what about the skinny people"?

I'm not saying that was what the OP was doing, but I can see how people would assume that it was the same-old same-old reverse-sizism they've seen before. It's a trigger phrase, like "some of my best friends are black".

So while it might actually be not what anyone intended at all, when the OP says "you're all hypocrites", and when you say "Fuck them all", people who have had the "what about skinny people" line used on them when they try to discuss anti-fat issues may hear it as an attack on them.

I think maybe it's because I don't know who these people are that both you and the OP of the secret are attacking. The people who are happy to see women of different sizes get roles are not synonymous with the group of people who attack people for being thin. (Pointing out that thinner people are treated better is not attacking thin people). Who is, exactly, that you mean when you say "fuck them all"?

I don't see you talking to the anons who are making their side look bad

I only replied to the post I did reply to because there seemed to be a breakdown in communicateion about what was meant by privilege, is all. There're lots of posts on both sides that I don't get or don't agree with, but I thought I might actually have something to offer in response to that one.

Yes. Yes, I am angry. I've been struggling with an anorexic mindset for years, and I've been trying very hard to just accept myself. This bullshit? Not helping. I meant that it doesn't matter what size we are, that we should be allowed to accept ourselves regardless of it and not come under attack.

And I'm not purposely attacking anyone. I think certain people who feel they're being attacked need to take off their Victim Hats for two fucking seconds. I'm sick of this bullshit. Yes, my wording was ambiguous (I knew what I meant, others didn't). I've also, if you haven't noticed, conceded points that other people have made. I have not been unreasonable. I'm just... I'm sorry, but shit like the above and below is what makes me not want to listen to them.

Examining privilege also shouldn't shut down the other side of the discussion, which is what that anon was trying to do.

Fair enough.

Though you have to admit "Fuck them all" wasn't exactly invitation to debate either.

But I'm so not going to put myself in the position of defending a one-liner post I'd never ever have made myself. I just thought there was a bit of confusion as to what a call to examine your privilege means. Not necessarily agreeing with OP-anon. :)

Oh no I thought that your clarification of privilege was spot on and needed (I don't think the original anon really understands privilege beyond, say, a freshman two hour discussion, you know?)

Off topic but I sort of wish you weren't anonymous because you sound level-headed and. I dunno where I was going with that. XD

No, I'm not. I was asking if the commenter was going to heckle me.

And whoa, call me stupid, but I can't understand what you're saying. Please break this down for me otherwise I'm going to lose any point you were trying to make.

...Actually, right now, I don't really care. I'm just going to continue giving people the same amount of fairness I'd like to be given in return and leave society to its' foibles. You all can keep your privilege and oppression and fights over who's better than who.

You all can keep your privilege and oppression and fights over who's better than who.

... I think I love you.

I'm sorry. I misunderstood you as meaning you felt the anon was currently heckling by calling for people to examine their privilege. I was just trying to explain what being asked to examine your privilege means, and why the anon might have said it, because it seemed like your response was a lot angrier than I expected.

I can understand being irritated by being told to check your privilege without any proper discussion. But I didn't understand how "your privilege is showing" could be translated as heckling because "privileged" isn't an insult.

They weren't telling me to examine my privilege - or if they were, they were purposely inflammatory and insulting.

And you know what? My privilege was not showing. ~~My poor wording, on the other hand...~~ What I meant was that people are people, regardless of size and that we should all be treated as such. I was just saying "fuck you" to people who tell me to "eat" or, alternately, to "lose some weight."

Edited 2009-01-04 23:15 (UTC)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #729 ]

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