fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5146 ]

[ SECRET POST #5146 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5146 ⌋

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Notes:

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Iron Man/Parker is extremely basic. I'm surprised anyone who that likes it isn't proud to call themselves fickle.

???

I like fairly "basic" ships and am not into starker, but if there's one thing I wouldn't call that ship, it's basic. I mean, it's...a lot. There's a lot going on there.

ayrt

True. I guess I meant it more in the way that people who ship the 'mentor/mentee, or Father-figure/son' dynamic ship them even though they barely fit that profile. There's a /lot/ of reaching and picking/choosing when it comes to this paring, basically to the point it's cut and dry what people want it to be in fanon, and is majority shipped to fit that dynamic regardless of what canon says.

So yeah, you're absolutely right. Not basic, but shipped in the way that I would not be surprised if people jumped ship for the next new sugar-daddy type just because they can... I guess?

There's a /lot/ of reaching and picking/choosing when it comes to this paring

As opposed to all the other pairings, which hew so close to canon?

Honestly, there is a lot of cookie-cutter stuff for this pairing, because a lot of people are mainly there for the kinks (which is fine). For some people, it's ostensibly about Peter/Tony, but mostly it's about hot young twink/older mentor daddy smut. But even that cookie-cutter stuff (which isn't my scene, personally) is not what I would call basic. Personally, I wouldn't call any ship with a thirty year age gap basic. *shrugs*

That said, personally, Starker is by far the LEAST basic ship I've ever had. It's the most complex by a mile. A thirty-year age gap. A mentor/mentee relationship. One character with daddy issues (the older one) and one character with abandonment issues (the younger one). The young and disadvantaged character being way stronger, both emotionally and physically. Is Peter's love for Tony real or is it a product of youth and idol worship? Is it possible to know one way or the other, and does it even matter, under the circumstances? Tony wants to nurture and protect Peter, but is it possible to do that while harboring a messed up attraction for him, or does that make their relationship inherently toxic? Is the best thing Tony can do for Peter to shut him out completely, even though being abandoned by another mentor figure will reopen old, deep wounds? Where and when did Tony's desire to be better than Howard end, and the romantic desire begin? Where and when did Peter's desire for a strong male figure like his dead uncle...become something else?

Plus all the pre-packed MCU themes of heroism, martyrdom, vigilantism, bravery, egotism, carelessness, power, responsibility, and the different and similar ways Peter and Tony interact with those themes.

*shrugs* Definitely the most complex ship I've ever had.

ayrt

I'll respond to your rant with two tags: "smol cinnamon bun!Peter Parker" & "Good Parent!Tony Stark"

+ agreeing with me that most of your almost juggernaut ship is done to a cookie cutter dynamic is not a great way to argue that it isn't basic. Every ship is dynamic, you just have to care about their actual character traits to find out.

"smol cinnamon bun!Peter Parker" & "Good Parent!Tony Stark"

What does this have to do with...literally anything?

+ agreeing with me that most of your almost juggernaut ship is done to a cookie cutter dynamic is not a great way to argue that it isn't basic.

A ship can be wildly OOC and discard a lot of canon ("cookie-cutter") without being basic. If you think a fic with a thirty-year age gap and dodgy social dynamics out the wazoo is "basic," I have a Princess Bride gif for you.

Every ship is dynamic, you just have to care about their actual character traits to find out.

The reverse is also true: every ship can be at least somewhat basic. It's a real struggle to make a ship like Starker basic, given the complex and unusual elements its got going on, but some people do manage it. There's some high school AUs out there that manage it.

Honestly, I get "I hate your ship but instead of just saying that I'm going to be rude and hostile to you because you like said ship" vibes from you, and frankly, life's too short.

You have fun, though.

ayrt

The point I made in the first place, aka the comment you replied to, said exactly that. Precisely that when a popular ship of a certain dynamic is portrayed as cookie cutter more than anything else- that it is basic.

Dynamic is what counts, not the age/mentee/pedo circumstance that surrounds it. When that dynamic is commonly used as a phantofic for some fanon insert, that is what makes it basic, reverse or otherwise. So sorry you aren't one of the masses, but your singular opinion doesn't say much for the paring as a whole.

Anyways, it's nice you have such a high self-esteem, but besides shading some High School AU's and pretending that the majority of your fanbase counts for nothing, I'd like to see you try and pretend /any/ other paring at all is even half as complex as your apparent OTP.

NA

"rant"

Uh...did you perchance mean to say "enthusiastic explanation of what makes the ship compelling according to one of its fans" but got a little confused?

I don't ship Peter/Tony, but I now feel like I have a much better understanding of why others do, thanks to the AYRT. (Thank you, upthread Starker fan! Your comment was an interesting read.)

DA

Same. I still don't ship it, but I appreciate the explanation.

I appreciate you both muchly. :)

da
I read a few Starker fics with alpha!MCUPeter and gotta say this ship has fairly nice fans. To call any mentor ships basic is... weird. I'm with the anon above. Star Wars, Murder Rooms, Self-saving System and Monstrologist have mentor/pupil ships akin to MCU. I think anon just hates Starker.

Thank you, anon, that's sweet of you to say!

When you say alpha!MCUPeter, do you mean a/b/o fic? Or are you talking about something else? Just curious. :)

Yeah, I enjoy the dynamic where the mentee wins over their mentor in all my mentor-mentee ships for some reason. *scratches head* Searching for abo is one way to find this kind of fics.

Heh, that's a good point! It's a thing for me, too. I often get squicked when the mentor makes the first move. Barring some specific circumstances, like the "I thought you died but you're alive" kiss or something like that. I prefer to have the mentee be the more active one in seeking the relationship.

Have you read Seiche by Unsettled? It's mostly PWP, not sure if that's your thing. But it's got alpha!Peter and is well-written, and (imo) hot.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/22583692

ayrt
Thanks for the rec!

Nayrt: Funny enough, mcu Parker's introduction completely broke suspension of disbelief that he was a character rather than a checkbox in some market-triangulation formula.

+10000000

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[ SECRET POST #5146 ]

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OP is feeling the love in this Chili's tonight

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