Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2021-03-19 05:15 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2021-03-19 05:15 pm
[ SECRET POST #5187 ]
⌈ Secret Post #5187 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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03.
[Gnosia]
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05.
[I Care a Lot (on Netflix)]
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[X-Files]
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[Lolita Fashion Youtuber Tyler Willis]
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09. [SPOILERS for The Story of Yanxi Palace]
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10. [WARNING for discussion of pedophilia/child molestation]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #742.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2021-03-20 01:48 am (UTC)(link)Then shouldn't the focus be on recognizing abusive behavior rather than saying "this kind of sex is bad/wrong"? Because I see where you're coming from now, but I also still think it's wrong, because if you really wanted to distill it down to its core components, you could argue "women shouldn't sleep with men" is a perfectly adequate take to that analogy because 1 in 4 women will be abused by a man in her lifetime.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2021-03-20 02:04 am (UTC)(link)Well, for one thing, I don't know if I would necessarily go as far as to say that this kind of sex is bad/wrong across the board.
But setting that aside - no, I don't agree at all. I think they're two different and complementary approaches. The point of a hygienic approach is to reduce the number of these kinds of situations arising in the first place by reducing the risk across the board. And that's important for a couple of different reasons - but one of the biggest ones is, if you only identify problems after the fact, then the people involved have to go through the harm and the suffering caused by that problem.
if you really wanted to distill it down to its core components, you could argue "women shouldn't sleep with men" is a perfectly adequate take to that analogy because 1 in 4 women will be abused by a man in her lifetime.
Sure, you can take anything to an extreme. And some people do think that. I don't really agree with them, but I can see the logic.
But think about the example of hygiene: there are people who do take hygienic practice and being absolutely way, way too far to the point where it becomes pathological. But that doesn't make us say that washing our hands is a bad thing to do. So, for me, there is a point where you have to balance the costs of what you're doing against the possible risks - and I don't think there's any easy or pat answer to where to draw that line. But that's human existence for ya.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2021-03-20 02:19 am (UTC)(link)But that is what you're saying. Wash your hands (have sex that could not possibly be construed as having a power imbalance) in order to stay healthy (free of sexual trauma), because disease and illness (sexual practices that could be construed as "unhealthy") can be prevented with a little hygiene (not doing those things).
It's a very puritanical view of sex and frankly, the phrasing of "hygienic approach" is making me incredibly uncomfortable.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2021-03-20 05:15 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2021-03-20 06:15 pm (UTC)(link)"but one of the biggest ones is, if you only identify problems after the fact, then the people involved have to go through the harm and the suffering caused by that problem."
There is a reason why Dear Abby ran her list of SIGNS OF ABUSE repeatedly over the years. (I think Anne Landers did too, but Annie's Mailbox is kind of shitty in comparison.) So people could learn what abuse looked/sounded like and thus see the signs ahead of time and not end up in situations where they can be abused by friends/romantic partners. (Families are much much harder, especially if you are a minor and trapped. However, knowing you are being abused can go a long way with dispelling the F.O.G. {Fear, Overwhelm, Guilt} and let you find a way to deal with it, see the manipulation, and get OUT.) It's very common for victims of abuse to end up in other abusive relationships b/c they don't know the signs and gravitate to what is familiar.
All kids should be learning about how their body works and the body of the opposite sex (like the amount of boys who think girls can hold in period blood is horrendously high) and about sex and safe sex, respecting our own bodies and other people's bodies, consent, AND the signs of abuse. All of this works together to help healthy relationships. You can't pull out the signs of abuse and just teach "Safe sex" that's not going to make things any better. You can have "Safe Sex" and follow these age of consent rules set down by your state and STILL be in an abusive relationship.
I'm going to add on that I agree this whole hygiene analogy is a bad one. Being raised in an abstinence only, emotionally abusive, ostensibly christian household with TWO family members who had children out of wedlock ANYWAYS and being subjected to the whole purity culture thing down to having to learn about sex from fanfic b/c no one would talk about it. It's skeevy. It is REALLY skeevy. For someone from that culture, using a hygiene analogy is only going to confuse someone and CONFIRM the inner bias that sex is dirty. Words matter. Please, before you hurt someone, find a new analogy. Or rather, abandon it. Your argument isn't really holding a great deal of water. Since Age Year +/- 8 is considered pretty normal for romantic partners, especially the more mature you get. (Yes, side eye a 12 and a 20 year old b/c that's pretty much hebephilia/ephebophilia and not normal. A 20 year old and a 28 year old is probably closer to normal than you realize.)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2021-03-20 02:18 am (UTC)(link)