[ SECRET POST #5231 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5231 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 41 secrets from Secret Submission Post #749.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

One, there are circumstances in which political violence is legitimate.

And two, when discussing political violence, whether legitimate or illegitimate, it's important to consider violence from state actors as well as non-state actors, and appreciate the causes and circumstances in play. It's easy and almost commonplace to condemn terrorism while just totally ignoring atrocities and violencde enacted by state authorities, and I think that's fundamentally a mistake that ends up tacitly justifying one side of a conflict.

[(Anonymous)]

Stop calling it political violence and call it by its real name: murdering innocent people.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you have the same feelings for it when the security forces do it? When civilians die in wartime?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes and yes. But nothing justifies eye for an eye. Have you actually ever lived in a country with an active domestic terrorist organisation? Because I can promise you once they hit the carbomb stage not even the people who sympathized with them are willing to do so anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course people aren't necessarily going to like it, but that doesn't mean that it's not justified. Whether or not it's justified depends on the content, the circumstances, the justification. For any use of force, whoever is perpetrating it.

Do you have a policy of blanket condemnation of all uses of military force? Of all use of force by the police? Because, unless you do, you're just arguing about whether to draw the line. It's not about an eye for an eye - it's about not using one standard of argument for people who call themselves the government and another for people who are oppressed.

For me, personally, I think it's absolutely justified in certain circumstances to use political violence. If you really believe that using violence against the Nazis or to try to use violence to end the system of apartheid was morally unacceptable, I guess it's a consistent view. But personally, I don't share your feelings - I absolutely cannot agree.

[(Anonymous)]

Arguing about where to draw the line, excuse me

[(Anonymous)]

I can't believe I'm actually arguing with someone who is honestly thinking that it is okay to blow up civilians for the right cause. Stop being dishonest, stop hiding behind phrases 'like use of force'. We are talking about collateraling civilians. Everyday people who at the end of the day just want to go home to their families, who fucking deserve to not be murdered by someone who thinks that their 'just cause' weights more than other people's lives. Funny you didn't answer my question so I am going to assume that you don't live in a country with a domestic terrorism history. So I'm also going to assume that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
'It depends on the cause', please spare me the bullshit. You'd be willing to tell that shit to someone who lost their legs to someone elses idea of a 'just cause', are you going to tell that to a family that lost their kid thanks to a revolutionary stray bullet? Yeah I bet.
You want to take out Nazi soldiers? Okay. You want to take out police officers and soldiers who uphold apartheid. I don't really care. You target civilans? No. You are not justified and you will never be. You are the monster in this scenario. No matter how much you think that these civilans deserve it.
And in the end who decides if a cause is 'just' enough? The people who think it's okay to blow up someones grandma, because thats a sacrifice her family simply has to understand? A lot of people think their cause is just enough. The people who have to suffer them think otherwise.

[(Anonymous)]

Violence causes suffering. That's the reality of the use of violence. I'm not flinching away from that. You're the one drawing arbitrary lines in the sand - targeting civilians is wrong, but taking actions that you know will cause civilian deaths as collateral is fine? How many German civilians died as a result of Allied military actions during WW2 - are we supposed to treat those deaths as so awful that the whole use of military force against the Nazis is despicable? A family losing a kid to a terrorist sniper is unacceptable no matter the circumstances or oppression; a family losing a kid to a drone missile, or a police officer using excess force, or a famine is just the normal course of things, totally unexceptional and ordinary.

I'm not justifying every use of violence no matter the reason. I think it had to be justified based on the circumstances and the context. But, yes, I do think there are some circumstances I can imagine where such use of force is justified. I'm not going to rule out the use of violence, even with all its terrible consequences, even if it may lead to civilian casualties. And I'm not going to draw up separate rules where violence magically becomes worse based on whether or not it's done in the name of the government. Is that a difficult and awful moral decision to have to make? Yes, absolutely, just as it is when the people making it have the law on their side. But it's our responsibility as mature human beings to face up to that judgment.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah we can discuss this all day long and we will never come to an agreement. I think your line of thinking is plain gross. Nothing else. The detached waffling of someone who never had to live the life they expect others to endure. But go on dreaming about building an utopia on bloodsoaked soil, that proved to be such a stable basis. I'm out.