fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #757 ]

⌈ Secret Post #757 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Higurashi]

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[Higurashi, Miyo Takano]

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[Spider-Girl]

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[Onyanko Club]

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[Chowder]

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[School Days]

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[Skins]

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[Demons, Ruby/Rupert]

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[Ayreon, Magali Luyten]

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[Heroes]

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[Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother]

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[Supernatural]

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[Gundam Wing]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 525 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I agree with you. And I realize I'm about to be overrun with people who think I should be banned from fandom and put to death for hypocrisy just because I agree with you.

At both the high school and college I went to, all the actual gays were scared away from their own gay-straight alliance organizations because of disturbing fangirls who couldn't separate slash from reality. None of the gays wanted to be associated with the many squeeing fangirls who wrote gay porn about their favorite characters. That's right - fangirls scared away gays from actively promoting their own rights.

People really need to separate fiction from reality. Slash and homosexuality in real life are two different things - slash being this wonderful problem-free fantasy where the issues that real gays face are rarely addressed. Many fangirls unknowingly make the mistake of equating the legalization of gay marriage to ending the social stigma for their fantasies. That's simply not true. Supporting the legalization of gay marriage is not excusing fandom's constant objectification of gays in fanfics, and I think fandom needs to own up to this. (Of course, this is just one type of person I am talking about. I am not talking about everyone here. What I am saying may not apply to you, and I recognize those who are truly for gay rights.)

Can you simply not care about the issue of gay marriage, like you say, and be a fan of slash? Yes, you can. You are not a hypocrite, nor someone who deserves to be called trash or banished from fandom forever. You separate fantasy from reality.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean you're automatically against it, which you've said. You just don't care about the political issue. Maybe all the angry folks out there didn't realize that the OP is probably straight and doesn't care because it doesn't affect them either way. Maybe I don't care about whether abortion is legal or not because I'm not planning on ever putting myself in a situation where I might want one, thus eliminating the need to take a pro-life/pro-choice stance? I know that's hard to understand for a lot of people, but this position does exist and it is a valid one. It's not apathy, laziness, or inability to think logically. The OP simply isn't planning on getting a gay marriage and doesn't feel the need to take a stance one way or the other. It just doesn't apply to them. Human rights issues aren't open and shut cases where you HAVE to support them. If you really think that, you're not thinking broadly enough. I bet some of you out there aren't big fans of keeping gun ownership as open and uncontrolled as possible. That's a human rights issue too. But I'm sure a decent number of you just don't care about that because you're not getting a gun and don't view your lack of support as not thinking. The same goes for the legalization of marijuana, or any other political issue for that matter. My point is, there's a decent chance you "don't care" about something as well that's very important to someone else's lifestyle.

Please don't think I'm comparing gay marriage, a person's right to marry whoever they love, to abortions, guns, and marijuana. I'm not. I'm comparing stances on general human rights issues and explaining why it's perfectly fine to just "not care" about one issue or other.

...

...

I wouldn't be posting anon if I had some serious balls, but I kind of don't. Sorry.

(deleted comment)

/godwin's

D'oh, sorry.

...

Can you simply not care about the issue of gay marriage, like you say, and be a fan of slash? Yes, you can. You separate fantasy from reality.

I agree with this, and I do have the balls to post while logged in.

That said, I think that anyone who is willing to fetishize gay sex within fandom but whine about hearing about gay rights has to understand that they are setting themselves up for friction. Fandom is self-selecting, and the overall population of slash fans contains a high amount of real life gay/lesbian/bisexual people who DO care about these issues, and may not want to be friends with people who 'don't care' if they get civil rights or not.

I completely agree with everything you said, anon... but I'm not up for all the negative responses I'll get for thinking the same thing.

Of course you can separate the fantasy and the reality. But it's still bullshit to exploit a group of people for fantasy and not support their rights. He or she can do it all she wants, but that isn't going to stop me from thinking it's he or she is a horrible person.

This.

Fetishizing a group of people to get off on their sex and but not supporting their rights as people is disgusting.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring up the rabid fangirls who scared off actual gay people; they're really not at issue here. As you said, they don't count for all fans, and bringing up the objectification of gay people in fandom just makes you sound like an inadvertent concern troll.

A person certainly has the right to be apathetic (and yes, it is apathy, not caring about something other people care about is the definition of apathy), that's not exactly what the OP is doing. She's bitching because other people taking a stance is harshing her squee and forcing her to think about the real world when she'd rather be reading her gay porn.

Whether or not she's for or against the issue is irrelevant; she's complaining about having to hear about it at all, which is a really grievous case of her flaunting her privilege. If it doesn't affect her because she's straight, that doesn't mean it affects GLBT people any less. Not all fans are rabid, yaoi-loving fangirls; in fact, some of us are queer! Telling us to shut up because we can't separate fantasy from reality is really, really offensive, and the OP deserves to have this pointed out.

TL;DR, no one said she couldn't be apathetic about the issue, but complaining about other people having an opinion on it totally makes her a complete jerkwad and, yes, actually, a hypocrite- though perhaps not as much of a hypocrite as someone who vocally opposes gay marriage while fapping to doujinshi would be.

Overly wordy parenthetical because I can't seem to stop myself once I get started:
(Personally, I feel that not taking a stance on human rights and civil liberties issues, even ones that don't affect you directly, is intellectually lazy, morally suspect, and shows a marked lack of empathy. Claiming otherwise without lots of evidence isn't going to get you very far in this sort of argument.

Also I'm pretty sure gun ownership and marijuana use don't actually count as basic human rights; you said you weren't trying to equate all of those issues, but bringing those up makes it an apples to oranges sort of comparison. Unlike gay marriage and abortion, neither of those issues deal with denying a class of people certain rights- marriage and bodily autonomy, respectively.

And furthermore, if you're a woman and not infertile, choosing to take no stance on abortion because you don't intend to ever put yourself in a situation where you might want one seems a bit naive. If you aren't a fertile woman, ignore that. >.>)

You summed up a couple of the points that struck me too (and in a clearer way than I could've), so thanks for posting.

Personally, I feel that not taking a stance on human rights and civil liberties issues, even ones that don't affect you directly, is intellectually lazy, morally suspect, and shows a marked lack of empathy.

Also this, pretty hard.

TL;DR, no one said she couldn't be apathetic about the issue, but complaining about other people having an opinion on it totally makes her a complete jerkwad.

Agreed. Yes, technically the fiction/reality line allows someone to be a 'hypocrite' on these issues. It also means others CAN care about said issues, and if you put yourself in a situation where you're likely to run into gay fans but you want to whine about how PEOPLE WANT ME TO CARE ABOUT YOU -- er, be prepared for an asspounding.

I agree with you all the way.

Add me?
I have some spare balls I could lend you.
(I have like 10 seeing as though I will never ever feel the need to post anon)

[ SECRET POST #757 ]

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Word.

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